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*bangs head against wall*. Gerbil, this is the very sort of false idea of what constitutes true patriotism - which apparently extends beyond the ignorant jingoistic allegiance to tokens (flags, anthems, slogans, etc.) of my own misguided compatriots - to wit I have been attempting to explain.
I am vehemently opposed to the criminal cabal running my nation (and many other nations) into the ground for their own self aggrandisement and profit, nevertheless I support my "country" with a passion. That support manifests itself in the assumption of my civic duty to decry the misdeeds and tyranny being perpetrated by its current leaders. No country's leaders nor government structure can be equated with the country itself, they are merely one composite element of the entire nation.
Thus revolution against those abusing their public office IS a patriotic act and one which was repeatedly recognised as necessary by my country's founding fathers.
That is the measure of a true patriot, not the waving of flags nor the denigration of public discourse with vitriolic labels (i.e. "un-American", "Bush-basher", et al.) nor any other external trappings with which the many unquestioning sheeple puff themselves up whilst, in truth, relinquishing their civic duty to hold our leaders fully accountable. Love of country must transcend the "my team" mentality else it is nothing more than subservience to partisanship, which can only result in the fragmentation of a nation.
I see what you mean now... overthrowing a corrupt government is patriotic as it is protecting, or saving, your country in a way, from a bad leader. IF you stand up to your leader for betraying the country and the countries people... you are being patriotic.
Whereas, if you sit back and support them whatever, that is not Patriotism, but it is jingoism. The difference between Blind Beleif and Patriotism. Thanks for explaining that. :thumb: In that Case, I probably am a bit Patriotic. Except there will be no holding our government to account, as no one in the UK can seemingly be bothered to do anything about it.
Its all such confusing language when your tired, muddling up country government and so forth.
Will you provide some proof for that ?
OH SHIT WE ARE!!!!!?????
MA! MA! GIT DA GUNS, DE BE A COM'N, GIT DA GUNS!
................ :yeees:
And he only ever got caught because he was stupid enough to record and store tapes of himself.
Precisely. What liar and corruptor would do such a foolish thing? Nixon did, I wonder if Blair records things on tape in no.10? Now that would be interesting.
Face it, the chimp's lies, deception and criminal responsibility easily outshines our own Tony. A man who not only took a nation to war and has cost so far the lives of 1,700 Americans (not to mention more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis) but who misled the entire world (or those foolish enough to believe him), threatened those who opposed him and set back international relations in the world by 50 years.
And despite this Dubya was not only allowed to stand again but was actually elected as President.
So what makes you think American Presidents are more accountable than British PMs?
He de facto retired and was NOT impeached, as you claimed.
members of his cabinet were not afforded the same escape route.
I remember watching Nixon's resignation speech on tv back in '74 quite vividly.
If the German Army had proper logistical support they may have won in Russia, but you're over-simplifying the whole thing.
Thankfully for all he did one fuck up after another.
LOL you must be joking?
If the US is "committed to the spread of democratic institutions around the globe", you must be from a parallel dimension.
when people say stuff like "america is commited to spreading democracy around the globe" i think to myself, "do they actually believe that and are trying to convince me to believe it aswell" or "are they only trying to get a rise out of me" either way they are fools...
Exactly. I find it somewhat difficult to accept someone can realistically believe America is committed to "democracy", it's patently absurd after a little research. Total delusion.
i know..i laugh at every last one of them...from the concerned mother, pastor, news anchor woman, child....there'll be satirical books and plays about them for years to come, i might write one myself...i'm glad i've got a little bit of street sense to see past it all...
History will prove us correct :yes: . Of that there is little doubt.
"Democracy", "Democratic Principles" and "Values" are all terms referring to "Capitalism" or "Corporate Interests", not the notion of an informed civic participatory system of governance. It's about hegemonic corporate control and for that, as we clearly see, Washington has little concern as to whether it is advanced through despots or through the installation of new more marketable puppets.
thats true but where's it all going...greed can only go so far...the world markets will be saturated soon enough and i can only see civilisation as we know it go one way...(and it ain't up)
But what is more scary is the fact that the public just doesn’t care. We don’t care not because we really are that apathetic, but we don’t care because of all the distractions that are being fed to us. Mtv, sensetionalism, terrorism, wars. Its all a distraction from the issues that truly affects our lives. The issues of how those on the higher part of society (the ruling classes whether policitical or corporate) are trying to maintain their status. Even if it oppresses those at the bottom. (its consistent with every major civilisation from pharaohs to emperors to now). thay have massive influence on government (with their lobbyists and side dealings), they control what news we hear and see, they control the prices from oil to cds.
we are so distracted that what the conglomerates do (whether good or bad to us or to people from other countries) does not even come into our frame of mind. we dont see them while all the while they are smiling in front of our faces as the reach their hand into our pockets and being. all we see is britney spears, tony blair or bin laden. the true enemy (if youd wanna call em that) does not have a face.
we only know what weve been told.
Yeah I know. You try telling all these nice folks that there is no such thing as a state or a nation, that corporations are a figment of the imagination and that you are programmed at birth to accept the existence of things that are antithetical to your self interest and have no factual basis.
People argue for the state, against the state, for a corporation, against a corporation but it's existence is never questioned. It's in the acceptance of existence that you are lost.
i've questioned their existence aswell but you might aswell just accept someone invented them and whether we like these fictional entities or not we might as well just accept them and go along with them...