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The best way to cut through the media fed BS about "terrorists" is do what they don't bother doing and contextualise the situation without double standards. If you could honestly say you wouldn't BE that man in the picture if it were your own country occupied by a foreign force, your own family dead because of them and their phoney claim to be "liberating" you (whilst selling off your nation's wealth the crony corporate interests of the foreign leaders), then I would say any claim of love for your nation, your family or your own self determined future is completely hollow.
The real terrorists are those who proclaimed the self appointed right of unilateralist attack in the first place and I suspect youd have a greater chance of meeting any number of them or their subordinates out on the town than you ever would those currently being mislabelled constantly by a compliant mainstream press and media.
got it in one clan :thumb:
fucking sures i'd be out in the front line if my country was invaded...even now i throw stones at passing british army patrols around here
well put.
FACT: During the 80s Saddam was the US government's best friend and the Americans not only happily provided WMDs to him but actually didn't give a flying fuck about the thousands of Kurds he gassed.
It is therefore an exercise in supreme hypocrisy for the US government to go on about human right abuses and killings in Iraq as a justification for going to war on Iraq later.
FACT: President Karimov is a monster no better than Saddam (I daresay even worse) who might have not killed as many people (yet) but who makes up for the lack of numbers with appalling cruelty.
It is therefore even more hypocritical of the chimp to speak about Saddam being a brutal dictator and mistreating his own people while at the same time shaking hands with a similar brutal dictator no better than him.
FACT: When the US government has no further use for the current regime in Uzbekistan it will suddenly denounce the catalogue of atrocities that have been going on there (with a straight face as well) and use it as a justification for embarking in further illegal wars, and people like YOU will actually try to lecture us about how something must be done to stop the appalling human right abuses :rolleyes:
But there is a clear difference between diplomatic relations and support for regimes who are nasty.
What annoys me is the stupid short sighted nature of this, when has this tactic not turned round and bitten us in the arse?!
I presume you have seen a map recently? Northern Ireland happens to be part of another country, one we invaded, rape, pillaged and basically ruled over horribly for years.
what bong said...also if you look out of one of windows you'll see a british army base directly above my house on a mountain, there's another one on another mountain to the east of my house...not exactly the nicest thing to look at every day...
Right on our own doorstep we've still got the Irish problem, but further away in the Indian Ocean we aren't scared of doing a bit of ethnic cleansing when it suits us. I'm talking about the forced removal of the population off the small island of Diego Garcia, part of the British Indian Ocean Territory, which was then turned over to the Americans to be used as a military base.
Although this island still remains technically a British dependency, we no longer have any control over it, its been "leased" to the Americans who use it as a military base and a home for its B-1 & B-52 bombers who carry out bombing raids on Afghanistan & Iraq. Its also used to house a number of Al Qaeda suspects and Riduan Isamuddin, leader of Jemaah Islamiyah, who carried out the Bali bombing is imprisoned there.
Has Parliament ever approved all of this? When it comes to human abuse and aggression, the Americans have got to go a long way to catch up with Britains appalling record. Perhaps they learnt it from us?
Granted, and I would really like to see the political situation there change, though its a tough one.
I should also point out that although its not perfect human rights abuses there are not anywhere near as bad as they used to be.
And, as for us not criticising the government, erm, take a look at our comments about internment or terrorist trials, I think you will find us just as vocal on that as American affairs.
I should also point out that Northern Ireland citizens have over £8,000 spent on them per year by the government compared to £5,500 of Londoners.
That said, I do chide you once again for employing the term "anti-American" (another fraudulent term created by my own unaccountable leaders) as a reference for rightful criticism of Washington's misdeeds. Rarely, if ever at all, have I noted any condemnation of the American people or the country, geographically speaking, by any poster here.
The truest patriot is one one who loves his country to such an extent that he/she will not shirk from decrying its wrongs both domestically and within the international community of nations.
reminds me off a quote from the film "the american president" with micael douglas, i think it's particularly relevant in todays society
"You want to claim this land as the land of the free, then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising
his right to burn that flag in protest."
I visit the States regularly having friends and business interests over there, and one thing that always strikes me is how patriotic the Americans are. Its is not a simple low-key thin veneer of a patriotism but is a full-blown in your face variety that demonstrates quite clearly that they treasure Country & Flag and "support their boys overseas". They have large "stars & stripes" flying in their gardens and business premises have some of the largest flags I've ever seen. In my experience they do not take kindly to criticism and in many ways cannot understand why we Europeans are like we are.
In some ways, and I don't mean this to sound insulting, they are child-like in their understanding of global issues. But don't underestimate their patriotism. We in this country don't get anywhere near it.
We were driving along and got to a cross roads, there was two teenage girls there dressed up in American flags and painted faces with signs saying 'Honk if you love America'
I didnt understand it then and I still dont now.
"My country right or wrong" is a path straight to rogue nationhood.
Yes, I get the feeling the Americans don't actually know what they are standing for, its mass Ignorance... I would be unwilling to support my country if I really disagreed with the Leadership, e.g: If we were a Facist state. I would be fighting for revolution.
I can see your point with the British Army thing there. Your country has been treated like shit by us for a fair while, although sadly there seems little chance of peace unti lthe Catholics and Protestants can get along together. Why do you guys disagree? Its both Christianity, right?
I would at the moment myself stand up for hte UK if we were occupied. The picture was a bit of a joke on my part, sorry, but sparked an intersting debate. If I were in Iraq, i'd be fighting the Yanks for so many lies and a false "liberation" bullshit pile. Yeah, we're so free now we don't get power or water anymore. Even Saddam could do that...
Why not? The US had been under direct attack from foreign invaders. Its like the patriotism seen in the UK during the Blitz.
The US public know perfectly well what their government is doing - they voted for it in the Election. Thank God for their persistence.
Its not just about differing branches of Christianity.
Sure you would. The Fact is that the vast majority of atrocities and suicide bombings now happening in Iraq arent carried out by Iraqis, but rather by foreign operatives seeking to destabalize Democratic reform in the Arab world.
children-patriotism...you must be joking...children like sweets and playing...these children where probably swept up under the juggernaught of nationalim felt by the nation as a whole and used as a ploy to strengthen their cause...
Are you saying that patriotism is a bad thing?
Children are often much more patriotic than their elders. Just look at the Hitler Youth. (Not that I am comparing that in any way to Americas current Patriotic mood - which I admire and respect and wish we had over here.)
All irrational belief in fction is a bad thing.
no i'm not saying patriotism is a bad thing, i'm pretty patriotic myself, but use it in a different way, i.e. speak my own language and play my own irish sports, thats how i use my patriotism
hitler youth
well i would disagree, the people of my land, i.e this island, spoke the irish language for thousands of years, played all our sports, i have a close affinity to what my ancestors did and i feel proud that i'm following in their footsteps to a degree, though at the same time doing my bit for tomorows generation, not harkening on too much about the history of my land...it's a good thing if you do it properly...
not at all. hitler called off the battle because the allies invaded europe. he wanted his best divisions in italy. Hitlers generals were furious he called it off as they could have won the battle with a little perseverance. look up the casualty statistics some time.
Well it is nationalism and nationalism has caused a lot of bloodshed and conflict especially in this century. The First World War comes to mind as an example of how nationalism can lead to bloody wars. It can be argued and has been argued by many historians that nationalism is the "biggest political shame of the 20th century"
The problem with this extreme patriotism which America has and had throughout its history at certain times is that it can kill any form of constructive criticism with labels such as Un-American. It can blind people and stop them from questioning policies which can be dubious at best
However I will admit nationalism patriotism etc can forge a common identity which can give a community a sense of belonging, American in a way highlights the positive as well as the negative. But it is wrong to deny the inherent dangers of nationalism