If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options
Take a look around and enjoy reading the discussions. If you'd like to join in, it's really easy to register and then you'll be able to post. If you'd like to learn what this place is all about, head here.
Comments
well i dont like to drag old threads up, but in light of something i watched just now i think its worth it..........video ............i can't put it any better than this.
For any conspiracy I always prefer to look from the angle of 'what is there to gain'. Exactly how would it benefit the US government to pretend a plane hit the Pentagon, to cover it up, lie to people on the scene, silence witnesses and what, hide/kill/imprison the passengers of the plane?
I just can't see what they gained.
Yes, that's a good indepedent source isn't it? :rolleyes:
Or is it pure anti-Americanism?
Snopes is your friend http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
Taken from the above site:
) Can you explain how a Boeing 757-200, weighing nearly 100 tons and travelling at a minimum speed of 250 miles an hour only damaged the outside of the Pentagon?
Despite the appearances of exterior photographs, the Boeing 757-200 did not "only damage the outside of the Pentagon." It caused damage to all five rings (not just the outermost one) after penetrating a reinforced, 24-inch-thick outer wall. As 60 Minutes II reported in their "Miracle of the Pentagon" episode on 28 November 2001, the section of the Pentagon into which the hijacked airliner was flown had just been reinforced during a renovation project:
"We made several modifications to the building as part of that renovation that we think helped save people's lives," says Lee Evey, who runs a billion-dollar project to renovate the Pentagon. They’ve been working on it since 1993. The first section was five days from being finished when the terrorists hit it with the plane.
The renovation project built strength into the 60-year-old limestone exterior with a web of steel beams and columns.
"You have these steel tubes and, again, they go from the first floor and go all the way to the fifth floor," says Evey. "We have everything bolted together in a strong steel matrix. It supports and encases the windows and provides tremendous additional strength to the wall."
When the plane hit at 350 miles an hour, the limestone layer shattered. But inside, those shards of stone were caught by a shield of cloth that lines the entire section of the building.
It is a special cloth that helps prevent masonry from fragmenting and turning into shrapnel. The cloth is also used to make bullet-resistant vests.
All of this, especially the steel, held up the third, fourth and fifth floors. They stayed up for 35 minutes. You can see them through the smoke, suspended over the hole gouged by the jet. Only after the evacuation did the heat melt the new steel away. Evey says that without the reconstruction, the floors might have collapsed immediately.
Once again, it astounds me that supposedly intelligent people can fail to see the concentration of power and long term corporate plunder that 9/11 made possible.
The real conspiracy theorists are those who can actually believe that factuous ragtag groups dwelling in caves in Afghanistan could have carried out a multiple hijacking in the most defended airspace in the world, executed a standdown of US air defenses, perpetrate aerial maneuvers with commercial jets using pilots whose own instructors have testified were incapable of even flying single engine fixed wing aircrafts without a trainer present, and still manage to have 7 of the supposed 19 hijackers subsequently turn up alive and well in their own countries.
Obviously the myth that a western government could never perpetrate so heinous a betrayal of its own people in order to traumatise it into unquestioning reactionistic support for a well documented ambition for American empire has been so ingrained that people just refuse to see the glaring inconsistencies of the laughable coverstory.
It also demonstrates that people will continue to believe proven liars rather than demand fullscale transparent and public investigation into every detail of the day and those involved (including FEMA which conveniently confiscated most of the evidence in typical "national security" whitewash fashion).
Let us recall that this is not a new paradigm in world history nor the start of a new era (lest it be allowed by the public to become so) but merely a repeat of the same principles employed by Hitler to consolidate all power to the center, quash dissent and public debate/scrutiny and institute a war economy.
The profits (let alone unfettered disregard for due process of law and invasive surveillance) which have accrued to the MIC and intelligence communities (not to mention our oil producers) since 911 are a red flag of "who stood most to gain" if ever there was one.
Believe the Rove-inspired propaganda or take time to read both the PNAC report "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" and Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geostrategic Imperatives" and perhaps youll see just how great the ambitions involved truly are.
top government and military figures had been saying for years ...we need a new pearl harbour to galvanise the american people ...JV have you read the pnac agenda? have you noticed that all the people who planned and promoted it are now in power?
Most people would accept the twin towers, etc, but then question the pentagon - so I'm saying what do they gain by pretending a plane hit the pentagon to cover up for something else hitting it. It would be just as benefical to say it was a car bomb, etc.
One of the theories I heard was that the planners of the Twin Towers attacks were housed in part of the Pentagon destroyed. :nervous:
However like most conspiracy theories its pure bollocks
Roosevelt did not plan Pearl Harbour and The Lusitania was not sunk by the RN. Come to that the Titanic sinking did happen (it wasn't an insurance scam by The White Star line), man has landed on the Moon and the Nazi Death Camps did exist. And whilst I haven't a clue who killed Kennedy I havent ruled out Lee Harvey Oswald
your response is typical of the general population who lump all conspiracy theories into one blob so its easier to dismiss as bollocks.........most of them may well be, but to lump 9/11 into that is very simplistic thinking, when there is clear evidence to the contrary.........a conspiracy theory is by definition a purely unbased hypothesis, when you have evidence, no matter how circumstantial or probable, it becomes a conspiracy..........most people fail to make this important distinction............and you need to do some research, the commander in chief at pearl harbour blamed roosevelt for withholding intelligence and facilitating the attack.........
I reiterate my astonishment at the utter incapability of supposed intelligent people to acknowledge the need for such an investigation (and not one called for or in any way circumscribed or influenced by those in power).
I've looked at the "evidence" for your views. It's crap. Yes, there are some unexplained things, but to suggest that the WTC was deliberately demolished with explosive charges (for instance) is utter utter nonsense. People who believe in conspiracy theories like that usually do so because its an easy answer. An attempt at the truth actually requires some analysis and thought.
Sort of like an independent invesigation perhaps?
i am not the only one unwilling to accept the official story, which as clan points out is blatantly inconsistent.........noone knows the complete truth, except the people who conceived this heinous crime.........what is clear is that you are blind to anything that is not endorsed by 'independent' media, the irony of which is blinding seeing as no such thing exists.......as admitted by william colby in my sig.
Given that both Kimmel (navy) and Short (Army including USAAF) were sacked and lost their ranks for gross dereliction of duty they might in their defence try and shift the blame - that's not evidence that Roosevelt knew and covered up.
And the fact I don't think there was a conspiracy is not evidence that I haven't looked at the subject - just that I don't draw the same conclusions you do...
All the remainder of your blather only serves to further demonstrate that you haven't made any legitimate or serious examination of the inconsistencies nor the evidence of elements such as the melted substructure (having nought whatsoever to do with planes crashing into the upper floors and everything to do with requisite thermite charges necessary to generate sufficient heat to melt the supports quickly).
Keep on yawning, its clearly a sign of a brain lacking critical exercise.
or it suggests that the blame was shifted onto them.........and if you have looked into it you'll know that's not the only evidence........
sticking to 9/11, the chances of an independent investigation is laughable........and you laugh at demolition charges, how do you explain the WTC owner admitting to 'pulling' the WTC7 building using explosives?........which takes weeks of planning, not something you can do in the midst of a burning blaze.......i think the person who hasn't looked at this critically is you.
P'haps we have looked at the evidence and note the inconsistencies in the various conspiracy theories. The fact that some things are unknown or confusing in the 'official' version doesn't make the conspiracy theory wrong - only that a plane crashing into a building and then exploding is a catstrophic event and much of the evidence will be destroyed.
You also seem to have typically inflated American view of the efficiency of the US intelligence services. A country which failed to notice that China had moved emabssies in Serbia, tried to kill Castro with an exploding cigar etc, etc is hardly likely to be efficient enough to run a cover-up on this scale.
For others with the capacity for critical analysis I leave you with these susbstantive reviews...
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/07/292330.shtml
http://uscrisis.lege.net/911/
Don't bother taxing yourself, little blag, we all understand that there are just too many words and supporting references for your poor weary brain to handle. Much easier to just believe proven liars and shuffle along with the dismissive majority than to seek the uncomfortable truth.
After all, there are so many more countries we yet need to bomb into submission.
Sorry, Clandestine. My brother-in-law was killed in the attack. I saw the building the next day. Lots of reasons probably to be generally suspicious and worried about governmnet's intrusion into one's life, but this is not one of them.