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The S*n Says: homophobic chanting at footie grounds just a bit of a laugh

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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    THINK of the funniest joke you know. Chances are it has a “victim”. It pokes fun at an individual or a section of society.

    That’s what gives British humour its edge, and why it’s famous around the world.

    The crackdown on homophobic chants at football grounds is a tricky area. Of course we applaud the outlawing of hate-filled invective aimed at homosexuals.

    Mindless abuse of individuals isn’t funny. It’s offensive. But there is surely a place for genuine wit, even if it sends up the gay community — or Northerners, Southerners, the Welsh or Scots for that matter.

    It doesn’t have to foster hatred.

    All decent football chants are politically incorrect. That’s why they work. It would be a grim day if they all fell foul of a PC edict.

    Still, at least we’d have the Sun campaign against extortionate ticket prices to sing about.

    Only the clubs could object to that.

    i hate to say this but to a certain extent its probably right. its not necessarily fair or PC to take the piss out someone/ some stereotype for a laugh, but it happens all the time, and its not necessarily meant in a derogative way. i think people nowadays tend to take things a bit too much to heart and we go to extremes in what is right / wrong to say / whats politically correct, etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Change 'gay' with 'black' or 'Jew' and then see if it still looks acceptable.

    There is nothing wrong with taking the piss up to a degree. I guess the tricky bit is agreeing what's the cut off point.

    The S*n obviously thinks a bit of humorous gay bashing is alright. And 40 years ago it would have thought (if it had existed then) that a bit of humorous banter about blacks was also alright.

    Brighton fans are said to hear all sorts of hilarious chants on their travels and even at home, from 'does your boyfriend know you're here' to far worse.

    Frankly I can't believe they're actually suggesting things should be left as they stand. Well, actually I can- this is the Scum we're talking about.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As a Brighton fan I can honestly say it does not bother me and to a certain degree our supporters play up to it. For example if a team particularly picks up on the gay chanting if we go one nil up you will often hear a chant of "one nil to the gay boys" by our own supporters. I do think all forms of discrimination need to be stamped out however I don't really feel that homophobia is an area where a lot of attention should be focused as there is simply not a huge problem.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Change 'gay' with 'black' or 'Jew' and then see if it still looks acceptable.

    There is nothing wrong with taking the piss up to a degree. I guess the tricky bit is agreeing what's the cut off point.

    The S*n obviously thinks a bit of humorous gay bashing is alright. And 40 years ago it would have thought (if it had existed then) that a bit of humorous banter about blacks was also alright.

    Brighton fans are said to hear all sorts of hilarious chants on their travels and even at home, from 'does your boyfriend know you're here' to far worse.

    Frankly I can't believe they're actually suggesting things should be left as they stand. Well, actually I can- this is the Scum we're talking about.

    If you changed it to 'black' or 'jew' it wouldn't work, as yelling 'you're black' would be a pretty daft thing to say when I'm white, whereas yelling 'you're gay' works as an insult whether you like it or not.

    I'm with the Sun, there's a line, but this type of banter doesn't cross it and is no worse than the taunts becks had to put up with regarding him and Victoria's sexual proclivities.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    However there is an ingrained problem of homophobic bullying at football. The fact that no gay footballers ever feel comfortable to come out (look what happened to the one who did) is caused by an ever-present atmosphere of macho-bullying and queer bashing.

    Even straight footballers who were perceived as 'not one of the lads' such as Le Saux were tainted not only by fans but by fellow players- such as the discraceful incident with Robbie Fowler.

    I'm sure many fans who engage in such chants are not homophobic and simply see such attacks as fair game and a bit of a laugh. But it is still wrong and it should be stamped out.

    Sol Campbell and Ashely Cole have found themselves the victims of some pretty disgraceful chants last season. Such behaviour should be treated as racist behaviour would.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you changed it to 'black' or 'jew' it wouldn't work, as yelling 'you're black' would be a pretty daft thing to say when I'm white, whereas yelling 'you're gay' works as an insult whether you like it or not.
    How about 'you're just a town full of fa ggots? Replace 'fa ggots' with 'p akis' and see how it sounds.
    I'm with the Sun, there's a line, but this type of banter doesn't cross it and is no worse than the taunts becks had to put up with regarding him and Victoria's sexual proclivities.
    I see it as a more serious problem myself for reasons given in my previous post.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's sad that "gay" is still an insult.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    I think it's sad that "gay" is still an insult.

    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "But there is surely a place for genuine wit, even if it sends up the gay community — or Northerners, Southerners, the Welsh or Scots for that matter."

    Is the chanting 'genuine wit'? I don't think so ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's a macho bastion, there will always be banter. Unfortunately, as with all football related issues, there is a minority who take things to extremes.

    There will always be abuse from fans, but homophobic or racist chanting is wrong. It's not banter, it's hatred.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't know how anyone can condone homophobic chanting as "just banter", and The Sun certainly didn't see the racist abuse doled out by a couple of pissed-off Blackburn fans to Dwight Yorke as "just banter". Of course it is utterly wrong.

    But is chanting "she fell over" or "get up yer queen" when some diving charver like Ronaldo falls over his own wallet homophobic? Is it hate-filled vitriol? Hardly. But it could very easily be construed like that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Sun once called Jade Goodey racist.

    *giggle*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    But is chanting "she fell over" or "get up yer queen" when some diving charver like Ronaldo falls over his own wallet homophobic? Is it hate-filled vitriol? Hardly. But it could very easily be construed like that.

    I agree that everyone, including gays, should expect some ribbing with some 'genuine wit'. I laugh at plenty of biting gay jokes myself and was quite comfortable laughing at Dafydd long before I found out Matt Lucas was gay. So many gay people do not fall into the wrimp-listed, shrieking stereotype these days that I think the 'chanters' attempt at humour is sometimes uninformed and misguided. But it can be funny in certain circumstances - as long as it's not words like 'get up, you fucking poof'. I agree that, in this instance, it's not necessarily hate-filled vitriol.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No wonder the atmosphere at British football games is shite. Aladdin, a curse on you and your drivel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    No wonder the atmosphere at British football games is shite. Aladdin, a curse on you and your drivel.

    It's shite?

    Don't you think it's more to do with seating than not being able to abuse players racially or homophobically?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's shite?

    Don't you think it's more to do with seating than not being able to abuse players racially or homophobically?

    Seating didn't help, but I'm talking about a decline specifically over the last few years. When FIFA publish directives aimed at preventing ANY "intimidation" of players (i.e., not just racist/homophobic abuse), it's obvious the game is heading towards complete sanitisation - something which, if not checked, will destroy football.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    No wonder the atmosphere at British football games is shite. Aladdin, a curse on you and your drivel.
    Oh dear.

    I've been to a fair number of football games in this country, on several divisions, and there have been some cracking atmosphere ones and some shit ones. None of which had anything to do with homophobic chanting or the lack thereof.

    If you really think 'atmosphere' has anything to do with bigots and twats chanting bullshit I wonder what kind of football games you have been to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And one wonders why Rangers fans have such an amazing reputation :chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    Seating didn't help, but I'm talking about a decline specifically over the last few years. When FIFA publish directives aimed at preventing ANY "intimidation" of players (i.e., not just racist/homophobic abuse), it's obvious the game is heading towards complete sanitisation - something which, if not checked, will destroy football.

    They have?

    Link?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, bullshit. TV and extortionate prices are destroying atmospheres at football grounds, not a lack of being able to racially (or otherwise) abuse players. Individual players still get a lot of stick, but I suppose the racial abuse in the Spain - England game a couple of years ago, or the "I'd rather be a p*ki than a Turk" chants were just "good atmosphere" were they? It's the prawn sandwich brigade that results in a poor atmosphere, not what people are allowed to chant about.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, bullshit. TV and extortionate prices are destroying atmospheres at football grounds, not a lack of being able to racially (or otherwise) abuse players. Individual players still get a lot of stick, but I suppose the racial abuse in the Spain - England game a couple of years ago, or the "I'd rather be a p*ki than a Turk" chants were just "good atmosphere" were they? It's the prawn sandwich brigade that results in a poor atmosphere, not what people are allowed to chant about.

    That's true.

    What Spliffie probably means is that the atmosphere at Ibrox is shite becauses those nasty people at UEFA have threatened Rangers with sanctions like getting kicked out of Europe (although I'm sure they're more than capable of doing that themselves) if they kept on singing songs rejoicing in the death of Catholics.

    Since Rangers are a club bigoted to the very foundations, there's no songs left to sign, which if probably what he means by no atmosphere.

    Anyway..

    There has to be a line somewhere, and it's finding that line.

    Are we going to stop slagging fat players, ugly players, players with silly haircuts, players with names that rhyme with something funny, shite players? I despise racism, sectarianism,and homophobia but where do you draw the line? It's also going to be pretty much impossible to manage, it's not like race where it's a matter of black and white.

    What if a player was either straight or denying being gay? Would you get nicked for calling one of your own players a tackle shirking poof? Wouldn't that just be like being at a game with only white players playing and calling one of them a n****r?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I will always remember going to Leeds v Blackburn the season Leeds went down. It was anti-racism day - there was a Zulu band for pre-match entertainment, there were speeches and all the crowd held up coloured bits of card on cue, spelling out the message 'Kick It Out' (football's anti-racism slogan -for the uninitiated).

    The game kicked off, Blackburn immediately passed the ball to their Turkish midfielder, Tugay, at which point 35,000 fans stood up in unison, chanting, 'Die in an earthquake! We hope you die in an earthquake!'

    Didn't someone earlier in this thread comment that football fans WEREN'T the ignorant morons they're sometimes portrayed as?
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