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Harrods ban soldiers on Remembrance Day

13

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote:
    Gulf War, Balkans conflicts, Afghanistan, Iraq War, Northern Ireland, Falkland Islands,

    And what lovely places they are now. Might take my soon to Baghdad this Christmas though hear Bosnia is nice this time of year too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    What he fails to acknowledge that although something isn't real in a physical concept, it can hold a "real" value.

    Yeramindreader :thumb:

    Or maybe you just think you are.

    I certainly acknowledge that some/many value delusions.

    I also have no problem with that and, sincerely, wish them well.

    I don`t care much for those delusional values being rammed down my throat in whatever form that "ramming" may take.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you guys genuinely believe that the armed forces do nothing but murder innocents? What do they do for us:

    1) Stand ready to defend our borders against external aggression.
    2) Fight for our economic and strategic interests abroad.
    3) Act as peacekeepers in many places in the world that would otherwise be mired in chaos and bloodshed ("for us" to the extent that we can feel we are helping to protect innocents).
    4) Aid those affected by natural disasters here and around the world.
    5) Allow those who have nothing but snide comments and generalized slurs to say for them to "sleep peaceably in their beds at night" (RK again).

    All this, in the majority of cases, for less than the minimum wage. You may not agree with foreign policy, which is directed by government, or military strategy, which is directed by the military elite. But have some respect for the men and women who are willing to suffer, be mutilated, and die in order that you can live the lives you lead.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Or maybe you just think you are.

    I certainly acknowledge that some/many value delusions.

    I also have no problem with that and, sincerely, wish them well.

    I don`t care much for those delusional values being rammed down my throat in whatever form that "ramming" may take.

    Who's ramming what down through who's throats?

    Simple fact is, if you take 100 children and send them to an island to survive, eventually the concept of nationality will take form. It's a part of nature, animals do it (marking out territory) and so do humans. Just because they aren't physically real, doesn't mean a human can't value them as real concepts. It's why you have a few screws loose, you're psuedo-intelligence is wearing thin mate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote:
    Do you guys genuinely believe that the armed forces do nothing but murder innocents? What do they do for us:

    1) Stand ready to defend our borders against external aggression.
    2) Fight for our economic and strategic interests abroad.
    3) Act as peacekeepers in many places in the world that would otherwise be mired in chaos and bloodshed ("for us" to the extent that we can feel we are helping to protect innocents).
    4) Aid those affected by natural disasters here and around the world.
    5) Allow those who have nothing but snide comments and generalized slurs to say for them to "sleep peaceably in their beds at night" (RK again).
    The problem is that all they seem to do nowadays is point number 2. People tend to object to sovereign countries being attacked and innocent men, women and children killed to further our economic and strategic interests abroad, because most people have a conscience and don't like gatting cheap oil in exchange for other people's blood.

    Though admittedly that's not the army's inititiative but those who sent them there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    Simple fact is, if you take 100 children and send them to an island to survive, eventually the concept of nationality will take form.

    Proof please.
    Yerascrote wrote:
    It's a part of nature,

    How much "nature" have you studied ?

    Co-operation seems to be the order of the day.

    Yerascrote wrote:
    Just because they aren't physically real, doesn't mean a human can't value them as real concepts.

    So valuable that others have to be abused to uphold them ?
    Yerascrote wrote:
    It's why you have a few screws loose,

    Only a few ?

    Thanks for the compliment :flirt:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    because most people have a conscience and don't like gatting cheap oil in exchange for other people's blood.
    .

    i think you will find out that most people do like getting cheap oil
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    The problem is that all they seem to do nowadays is point number 2. People tend to object to sovereign countries being attacked and innocent men, women and children killed to further our economic and strategic interests abroad, because most people have a conscience and don't like gatting cheap oil in exchange for other people's blood.

    Though admittedly that's not the army's inititiative but those who sent them there.

    I fail to see how they don't serve functions 1,3,4 and 5 nowadays. Plenty of peacekeeping operations, natural disasters, and whilst there is no immediate threat of external aggression (beyond terrorism which is a seperate issue) who knows how soon we will be in need of protection...

    Admittedly since the end of the Cold War their primary function has been number 2. If you want to drive around in a car, eat cheap food, consume more than the vast majority of the world's population: well then you should be thankful that the armed forces exist and are ready to give their lives for you to have an easy life. Not that you in particular would ask for this Aladdin, being such a paragon of socialist virtue - but the vast majority of the population of the UK and the western world want this.

    Its only been 15 years since we our lives were realistically under threat from military violence - how short peoples' memory of what it is like to be afraid for your life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Still don't see why that means that Harrods should let soldiers (in uniform) into their building though...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote:
    If you want to drive around in a car, eat cheap food, consume more than the vast majority of the world's population: well then you should be thankful that the armed forces exist and are ready to give their lives for you to have an easy life.

    :confused::confused::confused:

    Could you help me understand how the latter causes the former ?

    carlito wrote:
    Its only been 15 years since we our lives were realistically under threat from military violence - how short peoples' memory of what it is like to be afraid for your life.

    Aren`t you the lucky one ?

    My life is implicity under threat from military violence every year.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Still don't see why that means that Harrods should let soldiers (in uniform) into their building though...

    Maybe THEY are "under threat from military violence".

    Al Fayed would probably let them park their tanks outside if they insisted.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Still don't see why that means that Harrods should let soldiers (in uniform) into their building though...

    Through respect for a group of people who risk their lives to allow them to sell the world's commodities and more commonly luxuries in their premises.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Didn't/don't those men also fight for the right not to be forced to do something?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Didn't/don't those men also fight for the right not to be forced to do something?

    Did "those men" know what they were fighting for ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Did "those men" know what they were fighting for ?

    Do you care?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Didn't/don't those men also fight for the right not to be forced to do something?

    Well not really, as seeker would point out they are also expected to fight to force people to do things, such as pay taxes/obey the law.

    But I never said Harrods should be forced to let them in, I'm saying that they should.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you care?

    Most definitely, if I`m in their line of fire
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are saying that Harrods should do what you want them to do. They didn't, you should really shrug your shoulders and move on because it isn't our business and we weren't affected?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote:
    Well not really, as seeker would point out they are also expected to fight to force people to do things, such as pay taxes/obey the law.

    He might think that, but there are battalions of Chinese/Romanians/Russians etc who would prove otherwise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He might think that, but there are battalions of Chinese/Romanians/Russians etc who would prove otherwise.

    :confused::confused:

    Could you explain ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote:
    Gulf War, Balkans conflicts, Afghanistan, Iraq War, Northern Ireland, Falkland Islands,


    we could carry on forever

    With the exception of the Balkans and possibly the Falklands, could you explain to me the purpose of the others and how it benefitted me?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote:
    Do you guys genuinely believe that the armed forces do nothing but murder innocents? What do they do for us:

    1) Stand ready to defend our borders against external aggression.
    2) Fight for our economic and strategic interests abroad.
    3) Act as peacekeepers in many places in the world that would otherwise be mired in chaos and bloodshed ("for us" to the extent that we can feel we are helping to protect innocents).
    4) Aid those affected by natural disasters here and around the world.
    5) Allow those who have nothing but snide comments and generalized slurs to say for them to "sleep peaceably in their beds at night" (RK again).

    All this, in the majority of cases, for less than the minimum wage. You may not agree with foreign policy, which is directed by government, or military strategy, which is directed by the military elite. But have some respect for the men and women who are willing to suffer, be mutilated, and die in order that you can live the lives you lead.

    Is this addressed to me?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are saying that Harrods should do what you want them to do. They didn't, you should really shrug your shoulders and move on because it isn't our business and we weren't affected?

    Are you being deliberately disingenuous? This is a politics and debate forum. I'm saying my point of view is that Harrods should let soldiers into their premises for the reasons I have provided. If you disagree then do so but whether we are personally affected or not is not the point.

    Although I would actually argue that it does affect us, as the less regard and respect is afforded to our armed servicemen the less likely good men and women are going to sign up, and the worse the record of our servicemen at home and abroad is going to be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote:
    i think you will find out that most people do like getting cheap oil
    I think you'll find that not at any cost.

    See how many people you find out there that

    a) support the Iraq war

    b) actually support it because they want Britain to have a slice of the cheap oil pie, rather than for security/WMDs/removal of Saddam reasons

    I'd be surprised if you find even 1% who do.

    In this country most decent people have a conscience.

    But like I said earlier most of them don't blame the army for it. It wasn't the army that decided to go to war.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Is this addressed to me?

    On the basis of "What do they do for us?" and "Gawd Bless 'em Guvnor" then probably yes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I think you'll find that not at any cost.

    See how many people you find out there that

    a) support the Iraq war

    b) actually support it because they want Britain to have a slice of the cheap oil pie, rather than for security/WMDs/removal of Saddam reasons

    I'd be surprised if you find even 1% who do.

    In this country most decent people have a conscience.

    But like I said earlier most of them don't blame the army for it. It wasn't the army that decided to go to war.

    You assume the majority of the population are rational and/or informed, an assumption that from my experience I'd query. But I'd agree with you that if people knew the full extent of the violence that our supply of 'cheap' (relative) oil depends on, its possible that they might be willing to consume less of it.

    The point is that most people don't care or don't know how it comes to their petrol station. If the price goes up, they aren't going to care why, but they're going to be angry and vote against the government, which they hold responsible. Hence the government takes the steps necessary to safeguard our supply.

    Having said that, its entirely possible that even if people knew that other people (particularly non-white people) had to be subjugated in order to maintain their high standard of living, they'd still vote for the government who promised to do this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote:
    On the basis of "What do they do for us?" and "Gawd Bless 'em Guvnor" then probably yes.

    Where have I stated that I think that all the army do is murder innocents? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Where have I stated that I think that all the army do is murder innocents? :confused:

    Ok, well then its not addressed to you. But perhaps you should state your position rather than just making throwaway comments that would imply this viewpoint.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe you could stop making assumptions.

    If you want my position, here ya go - I don't really give a fuck if Harrods ban soldiers or not. Soldiers are no more or less important than anyone else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Maybe you could stop making assumptions.

    If you want my position, here ya go - I don't really give a fuck if Harrods ban soldiers or not. Soldiers are no more or less important than anyone else.

    Fair enough. But if that is your attitude then I would expect you to keep quiet on any issue that affects any less than the entirety of humanity.

    And for the record, I didn't make an assumption, did I? I didn't quote you or address you directly, and gave you the courtesy of reading through your previous comments to ascertain whether the post was addressed to you or not when you asked. Then I qualified my response to say that it probably did.
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