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well can't believe noone else posted this...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
basically 2 of the top 100 wanted rwandans for the genocide of 1994 are living in this country, yet they are not being investigated for extradition or charges of war crimes under international law

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1774083,00.html

we don't have an extradition treaty with rwanda, should we deport these people for trial back home of henious crimes, or charge them for the hague to try them?

what say you? nothing will happen i bet much like thay scumbag pinochet
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1. Have the committed a crime within this country
    2. Have we an extradition treaty with the country where the crimes were committed

    if as i suspect the answers to both of these questions are no, then i dont see why theres a problem here, yes; what they did was terrible and wrong, but who am i to argue with the law of this land, where we are at least a few steps ahead of rwanda
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The whole Rwanda genocide is a complex mess, partly because a lot of the Interhamwe militia responsible for the actual killing are still living in that country. If you're interested in the story of the UN failure to control the massacres when they started in 1994, you should get hold of Shake Hands With The Devil by Romeo Dallaire, the UN commander at the time.

    Link
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    1. Have the committed a crime within this country
    2. Have we an extradition treaty with the country where the crimes were committed

    if as i suspect the answers to both of these questions are no, then i dont see why theres a problem here, yes; what they did was terrible and wrong, but who am i to argue with the law of this land, where we are at least a few steps ahead of rwanda


    yes, an international arrest warrant was issued for these people in january

    they have commited a crime under international law, thus should be charged as such....


    we should negoiate a 'temporary' extradition agreement, such that they will recieve a fair trial etc or suffer our terrible wrath :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    terrible and wrong
    Quite an understatement.

    The Rwandan genocide was the very definition of decimation - a reduction in the population by a tenth. A truly staggering figure. And all because of the European (Belgian) classification of Hutu and Tutsi according to physical characteristics (allegedly).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and all with the complicity of the catholic church.


    by the way ...no one seems to be arresting another guy living in this country who has commited war crimes ...he's called tony.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes, an international arrest warrant was issued for these people in january

    they have commited a crime under international law, thus should be charged as such....

    problem is, ive yet to be shown an international statute book of international law

    common law is something that is developed and created throughout the passage of time in a particular state, where it evolves and changes, the rights and priveleges should and are to an extent respected by any other nation, common law on an international scale is a very dodgy thing, laying down law and rule and thumb, sometimes where it is not wanted, nor needed

    and as for an international arrest warrant, theres many instances where US soldiers have been served with them for their actions in iraq, especially where spanish citizens were killed by US soldiers who wrongly fired on a hotel

    Truth is pretty much anyone who is anything in a judicial system anywhere can issue an international arrest warrant, its basically nothing more than a request or a demand to other countries, while id be happy to send the scum back to rwanda, i dont and have not seen adequate documentation within the form of a binding arrest warrant or extradition request, to allow it to happen

    and remember, as soon as we start fragrancing the law with air freshner to quell the bad smelly bits we dont like, we become places like rwanda
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Google search for the word Klintock reveals -


    http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=klintock&meta=

    http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList320/F4607C74CA18E5F5C1256B66005C27D5

    State consent regime vs. Universal jurisdiction
    According to a very usual definition, "[t]he universality principle is based on the assumption that some crimes are so universally condemned that the perpetrators are the enemies of all people", and "[t]herefore, any nation which has the custody of the perpetrators may punish them according to its law applicable to such offenses"
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why wont somewhere else try them then? if any where can?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    The whole Rwanda genocide is a complex mess, partly because a lot of the Interhamwe militia responsible for the actual killing are still living in that country. If you're interested in the story of the UN failure to control the massacres when they started in 1994, you should get hold of Shake Hands With The Devil by Romeo Dallaire, the UN commander at the time.

    Link

    thats the reason why they shouldnt be tried in or sent back to rwanda

    while i stand by what i have said in above posts, and also in a few of my posts tonight, the general theme of what makes us different to plaxces like rwanda, and places without the due process of law etc etc

    i coudlnt do it myself, but id get someone to pop a cap in their collective ass
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Google search for the word Klintock reveals -


    http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=klintock&meta=

    http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList320/F4607C74CA18E5F5C1256B66005C27D5

    State consent regime vs. Universal jurisdiction
    1) have you been back for a while and I've just missed you, or are you just back?

    2) where were you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1) I did bugger off for a bit

    2) Holiday/Futility of repeating myself kept me away.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    2) Futility of repeating myself kept me away.
    :crazyeyes :lol: :shocking: :lol:
    i nearly fucking choked on my cornflakes!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Glad you liked it. :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would their "crimes" carry the death penalty back in Rwanda? If so, then we cannot deport/extradite under EU Legisliation anyway...

    Just a thought, should these be issues for the Hague anyway?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just a thought, should these be issues for the Hague anyway?

    Why can’t they be tried in Rwanda? It would be nice too to see them brought to justice sometime within the next 15 years. I also think the UN could think of better ways to spend hundreds of millions. (The budget for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia in 2004/5 was over $270m). Wikipedia. A fair trial surely can be delivered without spending hundreds and hundreds of millions...And the Nuremberg Trials didn't take decades...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why can’t they be tried in Rwanda?

    i was thinking that perhaps this should be an issue for the UN because they were crimes against humanity and not just individuals.

    I agree that the Hague doesn't have a good reputation for "economic" justice though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Deport them back to where they came from. Whether it's Rwanda, Somalia, Zimbabwe or wherever, send them all back. I don't care if they're going to get an electric shock via the testicles when they go back, they should have thought of that before committing their heinous crimes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Deport them back to where they came from. Whether it's Rwanda, Somalia, Zimbabwe or wherever, send them all back. I don't care if they're going to get an electric shock via the testicles when they go back, they should have thought of that before committing their heinous crimes.

    then we can effectively stop admitting any asylum seekers, as we could legitimately then send them back to the country they were escaping political injustice and torture (the genuine ones i mean)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Deport them back to where they came from. Whether it's Rwanda, Somalia, Zimbabwe or wherever, send them all back. I don't care if they're going to get an electric shock via the testicles when they go back, they should have thought of that before committing their heinous crimes.
    i would agree with that if ...the evidence had been produced and the courts had found them guilty.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And the Nuremberg Trials didn't take decades...

    yeh but we all knew what the outcome would be of those trials before they even started
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    yeh but we all knew what the outcome would be of those trials before they even started
    The Nuremberg Trials... a trial of persons from the most evil regime ever to exist that did not descend into farce. The recently deceased Slobodan Milosevic, and Saddam Hussein, anyone?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    The Nuremberg Trials... a trial of persons from the most evil regime ever to exist that did not descend into farce. The recently deceased Slobodan Milosevic, and Saddam Hussein, anyone?

    as much as we all hated them and knew the truth

    its all a bit presumptious and dangerous to abandon the due process of law and a proper non show trial, as and when you see fit
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Deport them back to where they came from. Whether it's Rwanda, Somalia, Zimbabwe or wherever, send them all back. I don't care if they're going to get an electric shock via the testicles when they go back, they should have thought of that before committing their heinous crimes.

    Isnt that basically a justification for using torture ourselves?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Isnt that basically a justification for using torture ourselves?
    Maybe it is. We know that torture goes on all around the world. Regimes that condemn it almost certainly take part in it as well. The US keeps saying it condemns torture, yet no one believes a word of it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Maybe it is. We know that torture goes on all around the world. Regimes that condemn it almost certainly take part in it as well. The US keeps saying it condemns torture, yet no one believes a word of it.

    so in basic terms, because the big by in class does it, then its ok for everyone else to?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    so in basic terms, because the big by in class does it, then its ok for everyone else to?
    Alright, what do you suggest we do with dangerous foreign criminals? Why should the UK waste taxpayers money on looking after such scumbags?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Alright, what do you suggest we do with dangerous foreign criminals? Why should the UK waste taxpayers money on looking after such scumbags?

    Because we dont believe in the use of torture or the death penalty.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Because we dont believe in the use of torture or the death penalty.
    Speak for yourself, Bongbudda!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    who said we were spending taxpayers on the two mentioned in the origional post?

    hell we would waste more taxpayers money on sending them back to rwanda, after all i dont think easyjet do routes into that part of town
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Speak for yourself, Bongbudda!

    So we should use torture then? A bit of nail pulling, electrodes on the balls.... do you have any moral objections to that sort of thing?
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