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Defending the nation? Why are we in Iraq then? The last war we fought to defend our nation was in the Falklands, before that WWII.
It isn't unfair to compare Bush and Saddam. Both have callously and deliberately murdered Iraqi civilians for personal financial gain. And at least Saddam had an excuse.
Now you can hardly put Bush int he same league. All the cricis he has and I havent seen one go to prison even.
Not the same.
Indeed, the UN uses a volunteer force dependant on willing countries. Even then the UN doesn't control these troops. That nations invloved can call them back when they want.
Iraq is for a number of reason and its old ground to go over them again.
Just saying, like.
What "leader" doesn't do those things?
Anyone who doesn't do what Bush wants goes to jail. Fact. If you think otherwise, try taking a ton of heroin through La guardia.
Bush and co have better PR. Still murdering scum. Even if it's legal.
That doesn't make what the American government are doing right though. In America they do have better freedom of speech than Iraq had, but then outside the country America is just as bad, if not maybe bordering worse than Saddam.
Ya gotta remember that in the West politics is completely different to the Middle East where, in a lot of countries Sharia law is present preventing freedom of speech like we have it here.
Quantamo, while hardly a plesaure, isn't torture, well at leats not the same level of torture as Saddam.
that is such a mute point and I and others have explained that before.
The Americans have never been perfect but to say Bush is the same as Saddam is just naive.
Is my perception true or false?
Saddam used force to remain in power. All leaders do that- you don't even need klintock's view of the world to understand that. Blair fines and imprisons people who protest outside Parliament- did you forget that, or something?
What's your point about the rape? Torture is still torture, imprisonment for political reasons is still imprisonment for political reasons.
We do that too, you know. There's a big thing about the flights to Syria and Egypt, forgotten those?
Sexual abuse, stress positions, sleep-deprivation, white noise, beatings... These all sound like torture to me.
In Guantanamo people are kept like animals, their faith and culture is spat on... They are dehumanised and treated like dogs.
Just because the physical harm for stress positions is of less damage than say... Branding somebody does not mean the long term psychological harm is any less.
However there is no difference in being beaten to death by American boots and fists and being beaten to death by Iraqi hands.
Is there?
No they didn't, its not as simple as that. Man it is so easy to see the world in black and white as you do but it ain't like that.
They didn't say to use them as he pleased. In fact the cut ties when he did use them. But weapons are staus symbols and things that governments and scientists and militarys love to play around with, even if they never use them.
Saddam was not the person he was back then. He was an ally of us, helping out kuwait and prevention a war between the west and Iran who was extremely hostile at that time.
Shoud western governments help out other countries with weapons? No they shouldn't but its hardly justifuable to let Saddam get away with his tricks.
Also the biological and chamical materals used in the weaponary have other purposes of which can be used legally and morally by any regime and how is to say that a lot of this material wasn't meant for medical and scientific purposes.
If your physiology is changed then your mental state will change. If you are put into a cringing, supplicant position you will become one. If you are set in that position over and over again it will become your ground state of being.
Stand up, throw your shoulders back and smile and notice the change from being sat in front of the screen.
Wounds heal, this level of reprogramming (which will leave an effect but won't be understood by it's victims) will be near permanent. It's the destruction of a personality almost totally.
incidences taken upon by the individuals soliders and this is the important difference NOT STATE SANCTIONED.
and a beating is hardly the same as a rape either.
but I'd choose the stress postion over having parts of my body cut over etc.
Saddam gassed the Kurds over 20 years ago with weapons we sold him unless I'm mistaken. Sure Saddam has tortured, but so have we... Every potential dissident is on file somewhere with the government, now on marches we have police with cameras taking pictures of protestors (and trying to wind them up in my experience). MI5 have tortured people, the CIA have tortured people.
Bush's regime is slowly restricting civil liberties, destroyng the planet, fucking with internationa relations. What he has done is not the same as Saddam... But he has tortured people even during the war, some of which are technically stil kids... He has had daisy-cutters, clusterbombs and phosphorous dropped on civilian populated areas. We imposed sanctions on Iraq which probably killed just as many people as Saddam did...
So who really is the bad guy?
I wouldn't.
You don't get your mind back. Broken bones mend, cuts heal, lacerations leave scar tissue, and the effects of feeling powerless can be fought and overcome if you ever escape.
To have your personality removed, your mind broken and spirit utterly crushed you cannot come back from easily especially if you don't knwo what has happened to you.
What you want me to say?? That I agree with keeping this country and our allies secuirty as top priority for our citzens over other people that are terrorists??
then yes I do. Selfish it may be. Human it is.
The world works in its way, its not nice and nots pretty and no system is perfect and non1 is gonan get it perfect. Not me , not the antti-war lot, not saddam, not even you.
You make best with what you haev and do what you think is right. Simple as.
Bullshit.
You do what you are told or threats become promises and promises become violence.
though it is about time they get a move on sorting through the prisoners down there.
Moonrat, I'd liek to see some evidence for those atter claims.
Also, I knwo we sold them to him, should we have? Probably not. DId we know he do that with them? no. Did we condemn when he did? yes.
saddam killed his peopel with sanctions, not the west.
Though the favoured UN might have done a fair bit, skimming off the top og the programmes.
and you don't thinkt he world needs some order??
even on the smallest level??
you'd do away with police and all law etc etc?
Security is great.
Such a shame that this country is steadily undermining every security we have. The security to protest when things are wrong. The security to move freely and without interference.
And on a global scale, do you think kidnapping people and putting them in a torture camp- all the while shouting about how democratic you are- is a good idea?
Gitmo is the best recruitment agent there is for Islamic militias.
People are naturally orderly.
Yep.
And this is why people onthe anti-war left are not to be taken seriously.
They didn't appear to have any objections to his gassing of not only Iranian soldiers but also the Kurds.
In fact, they didn't give a shit at all.
And that's a fact.
No they didn't. Research it carefully.
LOL!
So now you have become a brutal dictator apologist.
Like certain other people, for as long as they are useful to the West, all is forgiven eh?
:rolleyes: