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The Budget 2006 is upon us

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Problem with a tax on "urban SUVs" is that the rural poor get twatted too. There isn't a way around that. You need a 4x4 in Cumbria in February. If you're going to have a 4x4, it makes sense to have it as a decent family car, rather than having two or three cars.
    My step-dad is an electrician and he's just bought a huge 4x4 pickup. He didn't need the 4x4, just a 5-seater car with a decent amount of boot space. He was gonna get an estate car, like a lot of other self employed people with families, but due to this genius goverment's guidelines, he wouldn't have been able to claim this as company expenses. What's he supposed to do, buy two cars? So now there's tonnes of the thing going round, and they're much bigger than regular 4x4s.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A 9p increase in the price of cigarettes was highly welcome, coming into effect today. I'm going to enjoy listening to smokers whinge about it as they cough over their next smoke. The extra £34billion for schools is welcome, though I hope it won't be wasted, as so much of it has been before. Not much more money for the health service, which has laid off 2000 staff in the last week alone, either. Oh yes, and I notice the council tax "rebate" for pensioners wasn't repeated this year. Brown the shameless electioneer is still with us, I see.

    Did anyone see David Cameron's attack afterwards? Six minutes of what they dubbed "pure theatre" in the press, I dubbed "Cameron's going bonkers".
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cain wrote:
    Yes, its time for responsible economics once again. Like Thatcher! Oh, wait....

    Labour prior to 1997 had a terrible record on the economy. It was a Labour government in the 1970s that like some tinpot South American regime had to beg the International Monetary Fund to bail Britain out...Prior to Thatcher’s reforms Britain had the lowest capita income amongst Germany, France and Italy – by the time Thatcher had left Britain had caught up and even overtook some of its European allies and Britain overall is far more prosperous thanks to Thatcher.

    Anyway what are you talking about? Brown inherited a decent economy from Ken Clarke and Blair hasn’t reversed any of Thatcher’s significant reforms...The only reason Labour got back into power is because they reinvented themselves realising that in their past colours they were unelectable. Nobody wants to return to a Britain ran by the unions or another winter of discontent. Labour did great huh? No burials cos gravediggers were on strike. Rubbish piling up with binmen on strike. Ambulance drivers on strike...Lorry drivers on strike. Say what you like about Thatcher but even the most balanced history will depict Britain as a complete mess before she became PM - and by the time she left No. 10 Britain in economic terms was far more prosperous and economically stable. Oh and Brown is hardly practicing 'responsible economics.'
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nobody wants to return to 15% interest rates and boom and bust periods either.

    Labour have made a strong, but more to the point, stable and safe economy the Tories could only dream of- fact.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Nobody wants to return to 15% interest rates and boom and bust periods either. Labour have made a strong, but more to the point, stable and safe economy the Tories could only dream of- fact.
    No, this isn't true. Well, rather, it's true the economy is stable and working well. But much of this is not due to Labour. Brown's decision to give independence to the Bank of England was probably the best thing he ever did. Brown's managed the public finances fairly well over the years, but to claim that Labour is responsible for all this alone is... disingenious. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Labour prior to 1997 had a terrible record on the economy. It was a Labour government in the 1970s that like some tinpot South American regime had to beg the International Monetary Fund to bail Britain out...Prior to Thatcher’s reforms Britain had the lowest capita income amongst Germany, France and Italy – by the time Thatcher had left Britain had caught up and even overtook some of its European allies and Britain overall is far more prosperous thanks to Thatcher.

    Anyway what are you talking about? Brown inherited a decent economy from Ken Clarke and Blair hasn’t reversed any of Thatcher’s significant reforms...The only reason Labour got back into power is because they reinvented themselves realising that in their past colours they were unelectable. Nobody wants to return to a Britain ran by the unions or another winter of discontent. Labour did great huh? No burials cos gravediggers were on strike. Rubbish piling up with binmen on strike. Ambulance drivers on strike...Lorry drivers on strike. Say what you like about Thatcher but even the most balanced history will depict Britain as a complete mess before she became PM - and by the time she left No. 10 Britain in economic terms was far more prosperous and economically stable. Oh and Brown is hardly practicing 'responsible economics.'

    Hmm...bias much?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nobody wants to return to 15% interest rates and boom and bust periods either. Labour have made a strong, but more to the point, stable and safe economy the Tories could only dream of- fact.

    Errr no, it's about to collapse in a way that will make the 30's look like trivial. That is if the US and UK governments don't get the oil from Iraq and stop Iran from breaking dollar hegemony.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Problem with a tax on "urban SUVs" is that the rural poor get twatted too. There isn't a way around that. You need a 4x4 in Cumbria in February. If you're going to have a 4x4, it makes sense to have it as a decent family car, rather than having two or three cars.

    I dont know, 15 year old automatic 2 wheel drive subaru with tow bars seem to be alright for offroading round here :p but I suppose it depends.

    What I dont like about the budget is he's planning a budget deficit again. And the problem is, he's underestimated growth for the past couple of years, and so he's just running us into debt really. Which might be quite convenient, if the tories get voted in and have to try and pay it back by cutting public services. Then Gordon Brown might get elected in 2014 or something like that.

    All the government economists say the bubble wont burst. I think they're just trying to fool people in having confidence in the economy to slow it, but we've had 6/7 years of boom, house prices are ridiculous, sooner or later people are going to start saving all their money instead of spending it - retail sectors are already reporting less sales. I think its about damage limitation now rather than smiley faces.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Labour have made a strong, but more to the point, stable and safe economy the Tories could only dream of- fact.

    Not at all. While I’m not a fan of Ken Clarke it’s undeniable that he did a good job as Chancellor and left things pretty good for Brown. Under Clarke the economy recovered from the recession of the early 1990s – which wasn’t something limited to Britain as Labour seem to think and Clarke cut the basic rate of income tax from 25 to 23% - which was of significantly more help to people on low incomes than ‘tax credits’ and he also halved the deficit...All in the past I guess – but anyway the economy won’t be any worse under Cameron.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All in the past I guess – but anyway the economy won’t be any worse under Cameron.
    The real question is, will it be any better? Can Cameron be trusted with the economy?
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    stargalaxy wrote:
    The real question is, will it be any better? Can Cameron be trusted with the economy?

    Most certainly not. ;(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    The real question is, will it be any better? Can Cameron be trusted with the economy?

    Cameron/Osbourne can - and will do a better job than Gordon. Some don't think Brown has done a good job anyway - even Panorama aren't sure. The Tories are keen to battle red tape and bureaucracy that strangle the productivity of business and through various means they can see how to make Britain attractive to business. Meanwhile Brown’s solution to everything is to tax more, spend more and borrow more.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We can make ourselves more attractive to business if we convert to the rupee and remove the minimum wage. Or we could just remove the legal right to unions altogether. I assume thats why the CBI are so up on trading with China nowadays, anyway.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cameron/Osbourne can - and will do a better job than Gordon.
    What makes you say so?

    Remember a certain event that happened the last time Cameron was in charge of of anything associated with the economy?
    Some don't think Brown has done a good job anyway - even Panorama aren't sure. The Tories are keen to battle red tape and bureaucracy that strangle the productivity of business and through various means they can see how to make Britain attractive to business. Meanwhile Brown’s solution to everything is to tax more, spend more and borrow more.
    Far better than start making tax cuts which only benefit the rich, deteriorate our public services, erodes confidence and re-start the boom and bust rollercoaster fun ride the Tories excel at producing.

    No economy is perfect of course and there are always areas where Chancellor could do better, but anyone who were to suggest Brown's running of the economy has been any less than 'very good' (at the least) must either have an axe to grind or not much of a clue.

    Incidentally Britain is already highly attractive to businesses. More so today than ever before. It'd seem that the world's investors don't quite believe the red tape and bureocracy scaremongering stories coming from the Tories.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Far better than start making tax cuts which only benefit the rich, deteriorate our public services, erodes confidence and re-start the boom and bust rollercoaster fun ride the Tories excel at producing.

    Er riight. For a start the Tories have not committed themselves to making tax cuts. Anyway so Clarke cutting the basic rate of income tax from 25 to 23% was only helping the rich? The basic rate band kicks in from £2,151 - £33,300. Is someone on £13k rich? :confused:

    Anyway given the indisputable enormous waste in the public sector I think it’s quite possible to reduce expenditure without public services deteriorating. For a start government expenditure in the NHS, in schools, on the police and public transport have increased massively since 1997 in accordance with steep rises in tax. While the NHS and perhaps education have improved marginally crime has gone up and public transport has got worse – and for the amount of extra money spent overall there really isn’t a lot to show.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Er riight. For a start the Tories have not committed themselves to making tax cuts. Anyway so Clarke cutting the basic rate of income tax from 25 to 23% was only helping the rich? The basic rate band kicks in from £2,151 - £33,300. Is someone on £13k rich? :confused:
    I'd be very surprised indeed if the Tories did not start cutting tax left right and centre the second they got into power. That's what they live for. Isn't it?

    Remember the Tories plans at the last election? The ones they didn't want us to know about...
    Anyway given the indisputable enormous waste in the public sector I think it’s quite possible to reduce expenditure without public services deteriorating. For a start government expenditure in the NHS, in schools, on the police and public transport have increased massively since 1997 in accordance with steep rises in tax. While the NHS and perhaps education have improved marginally crime has gone up and public transport has got worse – and for the amount of extra money spent overall there really isn’t a lot to show.
    Can anyone really trust the Tories (or anyone else for that matter) to cut billions upon billions of Pounds of funding without public services deteriorating?

    I think there's a better chance of Osama bin Laden being the next mayor of New York than of that happening. I simply don't think it's humanely possible. Especially when those making the cuts actually dislike public services by nature and would like to see them disappear altogether in favour of private enterprises.

    I'd rather trust Gary Glitter to run a kindergarten than the Tories to look after public services to be frank.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I think there's a better chance of Osama bin Laden being the next mayor of New York than of that happening...
    Is that al-Qaeda's next move? :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the higher rate band starts too low. £30,000 (or as near as anything) doesn't go as far as it did, especially with the stupid house prices.
    As selfish as it might be, I'm all for tax cuts (I'm far from rich, too).

    Apparently I'm £50 or so better off a year, now. I can put it towards some new shoes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The higher band should go up to 50% for amounts over £100,000 like the Lib Dems have proposed in the past.
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