capital punishment!

Former Member

icey wrote:

Looking at a time when capital punishment was still around (1950's - its not that long ago) and the rate of crimes commited then against the rate of crimes commited today i'd say the system worked better then than it does now!

It's more of a cultural thing. Look at America where Capital Punishment still exists in most states...even per capita their crime rate is much higher than ours.

Former Member

some people deserve to die - but what if people were wrongly accused of something ..

Former Member

I think DNA testing proves it.

Basically if someone kills say 15 babies. They really do deserve to die. It's all circumstance like.

Former Member

But DNA tests are only 99.99% accurate. There will always be a risk of executing an innocent.

Former Member

my_name wrote:

Legal in my state
Its more expensive to kill than to let them sit in jail though and jail, to me, seems like a much worse punishment.
You die or you suffer the rest of your life in humilation and pain. Depending on the crime.
I'm not against it, I just can't see the satisfaction of killing them. It seems like the easy way out.

i do agree with this to a point, but if they're put in jail then most of the time at some point they get out, i dont think this should happen if their crime is really bad like murder or rape etc.

i was reading about a man the other day who beat and cruely abused his partners 3 year old daughter, one day he beat her so bad that she had a fit, she was taken to hospital with severe head injuries and internal bleeding. amongst other things he tied her to a radiator so that he could beat her when he felt like it, and lifting her by her legs and swinging her bashing her head on the wall, the child never woke up and a few days later had a heart attack in hospital and died. he's 21, he got 10 years. so when he's 31 he will get out and live the rest of his life. the mother let it happen, she got 3 years :eek: i meant wtf! how can it be fair that they get out to carry on with the rest of their lives.

Former Member

minimi38 wrote:

But DNA tests are only 99.99% accurate. There will always be a risk of executing an innocent.

Lol 99.9% is as accurate as you're going to get. Plus DNA is only one method, usually there'll be other evidence with the DNA that'll convict the criminal aswell.

Former Member

turlough wrote:

I think DNA testing proves it.

Basically if someone kills say 15 babies. They really do deserve to die. It's all circumstance like.

hmmm id rather keep em alive and let em realsie the consquences of what they're done, rather than 'remove' them

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

hmmm id rather keep em alive and let em realsie the consquences of what they're done, rather than 'remove' them

Good point...place them in a cell full of shit and rats and give them 30 whips a day!

Former Member

turlough wrote:

Good point...place them in a cell full of shit and rats and give them 30 whips a day!

hahahaha i wouldn't mind too much personally but imo just deprive them of their freedoms, oh and give them this countries school dinners whilst schoolkids get prisoners food (which is better than schoolfood) and that includes swappnig the staff over also

Teh_Gerbil

Dr Pirate wrote:

that guy who raped his daughter etc; he should be shot in the foot every few days or so, just for shits and giggles.

Nah, shoot in him the cock every few days. UNtilthere is none left, then the foot will do.

Former Member

not a good idea, you'll end up backwards untill you're like certain countries in the middle east cutting off hands for stealing.

Former Member

I thought people advocated castration for rapists as a way of preventing reoffending? There must be something more productive our prisoners can do than sit around wasting oxygen though. What do prisoners do?

Former Member

girl with sharp teeth wrote:

Second of all, why is there this view of 'rapists should be castrated'? I have never understood it. Should thieves have their hands chopped off? Does it make their victims feel any better? It's purely a sop to gang mentality, to appease their lynch mob emotions. It isn't society that has been injured, it's a person. Society deserves no revenge.

It could be argued that the threat of castration could be a deterrent or a protective measure, like jail.

Edit: I've just seen i've duplicated a point made above

Former Member

katralla wrote:

What do prisoners do?

Try desperately to live in foul and degrading conditions mainly. Though they are given jobs to do in some places.

Capital punishment is morally wrong because its murder, I cant see how its any different.

And for those who think prison is easy, I'll ask, why do you think so many prisoners try and kill themselves?

Former Member

\

Former Member

scarlettleeds wrote:

castration, like capital punishment, is highly unlikely to have any effect as a deterrent, because the people who commit crimes like rape, murder etc are not making a rational decision to do it i.e. weighing up the pros and cons, thinking about it and deciding it's in their interest to do it as the penalties are low. more often than not, the people who commit violent crimes are compelled to do them due to psychopathic tendencies and no matter how harsh the penalty, they'll still do it. countries that have the death penalty don't have dramatically lower murder rates than our own, which goes to show that as a deterrent it doesn't work.

I agree. A far more effective deterrent would be if the rapists thought that they might actually have a cat in hells chance of getting convicted. Particularly in the cases where it's a sober person taking advantage of someone under the influence of alcohol/drugs (where it might be more of a conscious decision).

On the main topic, I don't think we should have a justice system based on revenge, and that's all capital punishment is. No irreversable 'procedures' should be carried out unless the justice system is right 100% of the time, and since that is never going to happen, capital punishment should never be brought back.

Former Member

icey wrote:

ok..well to all the people who have argued against it, take this (made up)example into account:
there is a multi-millionaire gets caught in the act of raping a child by two policemen. now the evidence is clearly there, theres no chance of the verdict being wrong and the crime is obviously unforgivable. In todays current system, this monster would be put in prison, probably given a cushy cell with a lot of luxuries such as a tv, decent meals, privacy etc. because those with money are generally more powerful than those without. should this pervert not face a more satisfactory punishment to actually pay for his crime? the victim cannot take back the memories and pain caused but they surely would be able to find a bit of solstace in the fact that the criminal received a fitting justice, no?

you've never been inside a prison have you?

Former Member

icey wrote:

Admittedly, im gaining this information from tabloids so yes, there probably are a lot of false statements that have been made regarding the state of some prisoners living accomadations (im thinking of the coverage on ian huntley). but that doesnt make them all false. Unless theres somebody here who is loaded and has gone to prison or works in one, i highly doubt we will know truely how prisoners are treated.
Looking at a time when capital punishment was still around (1950's - its not that long ago) and the rate of crimes commited then against the rate of crimes commited today i'd say the system worked better then than it does now!

I sometimes visit prisons as part of my job. They're not anything like how the tabloids paint them.

Teh_Gerbil

capital punishment! Deffinatley going on in the title of this thread! (Sorry.)

I sometimes visit prisons as part of my job. They're not anything like how the tabloids paint them.

Out of Curiosity, what are they really like then?

Former Member

I visited HMP Pentonville the other week. They're not nice places. Quite an oppressive atmosphere, with locked gates every few yards. Small cells, 2 people to a cell. Exercise yard like you see in the movies where they walk round in circles. Prison workshop where they make folders for hospitals. Classrooms for basic skills education. They're not completely grim but not cushy either. Sex offenders are kept on the VP (vulnerable prisoner) wing or on seg (segretation) for their own protection, but even if they're moved to another prison (prisoners are moved around the country all the time), the word gets out. Anyone inside for sex offences gets a hard time (especially if it involves children). Most prisoners aren't that much different to you and me. They're usually people who've had a pretty shitty life and have made mistakes thats led them to being locked up.

Former Member

Wasn't his example a minimum security prison? Not the hard as nails scary shit places most criminal go. Maybe it wasn't and i just thought thats what his example was, i dont know.

Former Member

imo i agree with capital punishment in some areas but with people who are having such a bad time they want to kill themselves let those fuckers live so they can think about what they have done and let the self toture do the work. And no offense but how can rapists be having such a bad time if they are on a seperate wing so that they are safe. I think that everyone should be put together so what if the rapists get beaten or tortured its what they did to their victims.

Former Member

subject13 wrote:

Wasn't his example a minimum security prison? Not the hard as nails scary shit places most criminal go. Maybe it wasn't and i just thought thats what his example was, i dont know.

Minimum security prisons arent that bad, but they are still no where near nice, you're locked away with strangers away from all the people you know for a start.

Former Member

doddie wrote:

And no offense but how can rapists be having such a bad time if they are on a seperate wing so that they are safe. I think that everyone should be put together so what if the rapists get beaten or tortured its what they did to their victims.

And when they move around the prison or from different prisons? Or the guards just happen to let them wander off into an area where they are attacked?

By your logic we should torture and beat rapists, and that makes us better than them how?

Former Member

bongbudda wrote:

And when they move around the prison or from different prisons? Or the guards just happen to let them wander off into an area where they are attacked?

By your logic we should torture and beat rapists, and that makes us better than them how?

so what do they deserve then because imo just sitting in prison is not good enough

Former Member

doddie wrote:

so what do they deserve then because imo just sitting in prison is not good enough

You say that as though prison isnt a punishment, its a fairly nasty place you know.

Former Member

bongbudda wrote:

You say that as though prison isnt a punishment, its a fairly nasty place you know.

for someone that has done something so wrong, the punishment doesnt fit the crime

Former Member

doddie wrote:

for someone that has done something so wrong, the punishment doesnt fit the crime

So we should torture them, put them on the rack maybe, pull their finger nails out? Hell why dont we hang draw and quater them? That would work wonders on the crime rate.

Former Member

bongbudda wrote:

So we should torture them, put them on the rack maybe, pull their finger nails out? Hell why dont we hang draw and quater them? That would work wonders on the crime rate.

ye i agree why not?

Former Member

doddie wrote:

ye i agree why not?

Maybe because we have moved forward slightly since the Middle Ages, because torture is morally wrong in all cases without exception.

If we torture a rapist how are we better than them?