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very worthy though
so many 'adults' responses have been to arrest all these people - what good would that achieve
Sometimes it's best to walk away and not aggravate the situation, just because somebody does something does not give you the right to.
And again, I don't understand your answer or what relevence it has to the thread.
The artist is taking the piss out of Muslims because a tiny minority are suicide bombers, that cartoon creates a stereotype and attacks a culturally sensitive subject, it makes a mockery out of Muslims at a time when it really shouldn't... It was insensitive. If somebody created a cartoon about the afro-carrebean community for something like that then there'd be an uproar too.
The cartoons were published in September (strange it took so long for all the fuss to be kicked up dontcha think?). They were not just published as a piss take but as a part of a debate on how Muslims are represented in society and how the media self-censors itself on Muslim issues (the effect they have had simply proving the inital premise).
Nobody cared when they were published until some extremist Danish clerics went on a tour of the middle east showing these cartoons + other worse ones that not in the paper, in order purely to stoke hatred of the west it would appear.
Except i doubt it would've been saying 'learn from 9/11' and 'kill the west' etc... In fact racist stuff comes up all the time (in family guy for example) but most take it lightly...
btw it's completly different, islam in itself is a relgion and thus by nature a choice, unlike being black or white or orange or yellow or born here or there
it was originaly about how muslims are percieved ...represented in the west.
it's from last year and the context it was in seems to have been fine then.
but then some fucking muslim nut jobs start dishing it out all over the place with the sole intent of stirring shit.
the guilt as far as i can see ...lies with the nut jobs and their violent agenda,.
Christians have been depicted in less thn favoruable light for years without worldwide revolts and if muslims DON'T wnat to be seen as terrorists then why as these protestors allying themselves with terrorist ideals and conding the attacks, nay, prasing terrorism and its attacks??
those signs put up earlier about the Holocaust probably prove quite a anti-semitism that they wouldn't normally boast about.
I tell you what. I have defended this government over the war on terror, the war in iraq and the pre-immentent moves to prtect socitty such as longer times for holding some1 without charge, using searches before criems happen and even using extraordinary methods to obtain information BUT...
if this government does not arreest every single one of those protestors that had a disgusting sign like we have seen or was hsouting death threats then seriously.... they will truely lose all credibility with me and I may just join the anarchists!!!!!
I'm not passing judgement on his statement for the time being, but I thought I would post it here as it offers an insight into the protesters' minds:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4686410.stm
At the end of the day that's their lifestyle, that is the way they are brought up... It is their choice that they decide to follow their religion. I do not condone what these extremists have done, I do not condone human rights violations in countries where Islam is the main religion... But at the end of the day these are human beings and they live in communities, they have their own desires, hopes and dreams as any part of society.
Well they exist. In this current debate regarding these Muslim cartoons its been mentioned numerous times by journalists. A quick Google link finds some examples too:
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_arab_press_080702.asp
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/qatar_cartoons.asp
Loads more, can't be bothered to look more as their existence in the Arab press is well established.
I don’t really think it’s the same. There are very few priests, ministers or preachers who would condone that; even amongst the most fundamentalist Christians I don’t think such actions have widespread support. You certainly wouldn’t see huge crowds of fundamentalist Christians gathering in Dallas in support of killing an abortion doctor. (Meanwhile if a large chunk of Muslims had got their way with Salmon Rushdie pretty rapturous celebrations would have undoubtedly followed…)
I’m not sure on the exact proportions but in the Middle East a massive number of Muslims hold clearly anti-Semitic and homophobic views; from everything I’ve read that seems pretty evident. Indeed, in the West while not necessarily a majority an awful lot of Muslims seem to sympathise with anti-Semitism and homophobia. Regarding these Muslim cartoon protests the violent and threatening response of a massive number of Muslims has been met with limited condemnation within the Arab world..
Although credit where it’s due – I was reading in Haaretz that the Lebanese cabinet has apologised to Denmark after thousands of Muslims set fire to the Danish consulate in Beirut. I have absolutely nothing against Muslims however I can’t defend the extreme acts of violence, homophobia, anti-Semitism and sexism that seem especially prevalent within Islam.
Well you're pretty thick then.
The aim of the ADL is to ‘stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment for all citizens alike’. Stormfront is an extremely hateful racist and anti-Semitic white pride website as far as I know. The two have completely contradicting values – there is nothing the ADL have ever done that could possibly be compared to anything that appears on Stormfront.
Incidentally are you trying to say anti-Semitism in the Arab media doesn’t exist? Are you saying the ADL invented those images? If you bother to do the slightest bit of research you’ll find dozens of other sources detailing anti-Semitism in the Arab media, not that I think you'd care.
Stormfront and the ADL are two exremely biased, racial-driven websites. Both sites play the sympathy card to gain support and to create hate.
Some interesting background on them and their activities...
Truth behind the public claims
See: San Francisco Spying Scandal
Turlough, you seem totally unaware of the ADL’s work, its commitment to interfaith dialogue and criticism of extreme anti-Muslim statements made by some in the United States.
The ADL does not equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, they’ve noted that for some people seemingly legitimate criticism of Israel is a mask for anti-Semitism but the implication that its some far-right Jewish nationalist organisation is as untrue as it is ridiculous. They don't have any problem with criticism of Israel in principle.
Equating the ADL with Stormfront is as ridiculous, offensive and absurd as saying the same of the NAACP and Ku Klux Klan. I can't be bothered to even discuss this; the ADL's work is widely recognised - I frankly have better things to do than consider ranting conspiracy theorist interpretations of the ADL’s work.
Im sure those who take the time to read the review of Lillienthal (himself an accredited scholar and a Jew) will find his analysis of the extremist nature of the ADL more than adequately balanced and accurate.
Only in their rhetoric, which is obviously sufficient for those who refuse to look any deeper into the history of its intimidationary practicies in the political sphere and its history of spying on American citizens and legitimate dissident groups.
Afraid of the truth of your own adherence to extremist and truly anti-liberal democratic beliefs, dear ideologue? It certainly appears so.
When historical fact shows your lack of academic credibility, opt for the classic "conspiracy theory" accusation and run away. What an interesting (if wholly disingenuous) historian you should make.
I’m perfectly aware of the scope for inaccuracies on Wikipedia and need to scrutinise it. However, having read the particular article I linked to I thought it gave a brief and critical albeit reasonably fair description of the ADL. I fail to see how linking to Wikipedia makes me intellectually dishonest, I think you’re starting to lose it Clandestine.
Anything but balanced…And uh what’s the author being Jewish got to do with anything? I really am tired of you trying to legitimise your hatred towards Israel and Jewish organisations by citing the odd Jew that agrees with you. Some Italian Jews supported Mussolini, there’s even a senior Jewish member of the BNP I believe – yet I don’t think fascism gains any legitimacy by having the odd Jew support it. Yet you seem to apply the logic that because a Jew self-hating or not agrees with your tirades there somehow right.
(And guess what? Some Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians support Israel, incidentally due to the persecution that Palestinians face for supporting Israel and the lack of a free press in the Arab world their numbers are unsurprisingly proportionally lower however).
Thanks. I wonder what authority your judgement of my historical abilities is based on. I am not at university yet anyway - although since you have never read any academic work of mine I don't think you can reach a meaningful conclusion on my aptitude to study history, you're welcome of course to trawl through my A-level history essays if you have nothing better to do.
In a lot of other press, no.
Incidentally, from the first link, how are cartoons 1, 5 and 6 anti-semitic, exactly?
There are few priests who would- just as there are a few radical clerics who would. Mainstream clerics wouldn't though.
Good. I haven't seen any huge crowds of fundamentalist Muslims anywhere, so I guess we're quits.
Of course... just like there were millions of Muslims dancing on the streets on Sep. 11th 2001.
Prejudice, speculation and smear.
I've seen a lot of anti Israeli government sentiment- not to be confused with anti-semitism, mind.
I can't defend them either- the only thing is, they're not "prevalent" within Islam.
Oh you fail to see your own routine duplicity? Let's spell it out for the cognitively selective then shall we?
You have repeatedly used the lame fallback argument in every discussion of the patented whitewash by the Zionist movement and the Israeli state of the ethnocidal clearances of the land of some 800,000 original indigenous inhabitants and the eradication from the accepted text book record of the towns and villages they once inhabited, by asserting my sources as "amateur conspiracy sites" (when the record of populations prior to 1948 back to the earlier part of the century are quite verifiable in UN records).
Now that scholarly and factual analyses is presented exposing the extremism inherent to your own ideology and organisations such as the ADL (B'nai B'rith), you run where? To an open source, non-verifiably authored entry in an "amateur" online encyclopedia. Fact is you are an intellectual coward more devoted to insulating your gullibly susbcribed-to ideology from critical review of its blatant anti-democratic character than confronting the fraud behind its sanitised rhetoric.
Fact is you are so blinded by extremism and bigotted particularist ideology that you embarrass yourself by claiming to present a "balanced" rebuttal. You rebutted nothing, but simply adopted the coward's mantra and screamed "conspiracy theory" at analyses with is anything but.
Keep dodging and clinging to your extrmism, you've shown all too clearly how similar in underlying principle you are to those you regularly condemn. Just as reactionary, seeking to avoid rational critique and accountability for the sake of promoting your own camp as justified for its institutionlised violence and lies.
Case in point yet again. When you cannot answer the scholarship and integrity of the analysis, run for the smear labels and try to kill all reasoned factual critique with the favorite slogans of your extremist ideological camp.
Don't think Lillienthal hates himself, Nutcase ideologues and ideologies like Zionism indeed, but certainly not himself or his religious heritage. The intellectually honest are capable of making the distinction, telling that you cannot or will not face the harsh truth.
religion in itself is fundamentally, a choice, im not saying it shouldnt exist, im just saying people shouldnt be allowed all they believe all the time..... would you allow a facist to not be schooled with all they see as 'liberals'
i knwo you don't condone it, i haven't said you are :thumb:
And you can't stop people believing anything.
you go as far as is decided is fair
if these people want a theocracy go to another country
Iranian newspaper to publish Holocaust cartoons in retaliation