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drug crime

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Drugs are only a problem if you can't afford them, after all.

    That's true with opiates, not with stimulants which will twist your head if you use them too often.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well I just asked since whenever someone on here said anything to the notion they didn't support drug users and addicts, people came donw on them saying "do you know what drug addicts are?", "how do you know they were happy" etc etc.

    Its just seemed there was a lack of personal responsibilty.

    Heroin = Highly addictive and severly damging to the body. Has great effects psychically and psychologically. Apperently the hard drug of choice in Scotland.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Heroin = Highly addictive and severly damging to the body. Has great effects psychically and psychologically. Apperently the hard drug of choice in Scotland.

    Highly addictive - yes

    Highly damaging - no, or at least doesnt have to be, heroin is really safe if clean.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Its just seemed there was a lack of personal responsibilty.

    Have you ever met a drug abuser? Especially a heroin abuser?
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    Walkindude wrote:
    Its just seemed there was a lack of personal responsibilty.

    Most drug users to don't go on to have problems or become addicts, in the same way most people who drink don't go on to become alcoholics.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hmm I am highly suspecious there is some pro-propaganda going on here.

    And no I have never heard of "safe" heroin. And yes I know it used to be prescribed by legitimate doctors but it was banned for a reason. Highly addictive and damaging to your health.

    And yes I have seen and heard form heroin users. The ones on it were a mess and the ones off it were so down about ever starting on it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    And no I have never heard of "safe" heroin. And yes I know it used to be prescribed by legitimate doctors but it was banned for a reason. Highly addictive and damaging to your health.

    No, its still widely used, its a very powerful and useful pain killer, granted other synthetic versions of it are being used, but diamorphine (heroin) is still used quite a lot.

    It is safe, physically it is virtually harmless if used safely. Obviously there is the addiction and OD risk, but they are only a big risk because of the black market.

    And it was never banned for medical use.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes it was, it was a legal drug prescribed by Doctors in the USA until it was banned, same for the UK I belive.

    Yeah a pretty big risk of OD and addiction.

    Basically with drugs it is this, you take it, you get high, you wanna get high again and then eventully you need the drug to be 'nromal', you don't get high anymore, just shit until you take the drug and then your at a 'normal' level.

    Obviously it has medical properties in diamorphine. But any painkiller is dangerous if taken for recreational use.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Yes it was, it was a legal drug prescribed by Doctors in the USA until it was banned, same for the UK I belive.

    Yeah a pretty big risk of OD and addiction.

    Basically with drugs it is this, you take it, you get high, you wanna get high again and then eventully you need the drug to be 'nromal', you don't get high anymore, just shit until you take the drug and then your at a 'normal' level.

    Obviously it has medical properties in diamorphine. But any painkiller is dangerous if taken for recreational use.

    Diamorphine is heroin, they are just two names for it, it has never been banned in the UK for medical use.

    This is the Home Office list of controled drugs,

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cdlist-01-05.pdf?view=Binary

    Heroin is on there, Class A schedule 2, as in dangerous but has medical use.

    I'm not saying its great for people to use it, and people should definately never use black market supply. But when pure it is a physically (relatively) safe drug.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes but the fdrug addicts aren't using medical heroin are they, they are using black market stuff, which is what this thread is about.

    OK, the street heroin is banned/made illegal.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    yes but the fdrug addicts aren't using medical heroin are they, they are using black market stuff, which is what this thread is about.

    OK, the street heroin is banned/made illegal.

    Well yes, but unlicenced sale and use of heroin has been against the law for ages.

    What I was trying to point out is that common perceptions of drugs are sometimes wrong

    And I was trying to suggest that it is because of the law, not the drug that heroin is dangerous.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    Walkindude wrote:
    yes but the fdrug addicts aren't using medical heroin are they, they are using black market stuff, which is what this thread is about.

    Which is where the vast majority of problems come from. If clean heroin were to be precribed by a doctor to addicts you'd cut crime, cut deaths, and cut the amount of money going towards organised crime.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just want to agree with what most people have said. Most addicts that I have seen in hospital have been there because of the associated problems with their addiction such as infected injection sites and general health problems caused by the lifestyle.

    As far as I know it is very hard to OD on pure heroin and the most deaths which are claimed to be OD's are actually bad reactions with other stuff mixed in. Wasn't there a girl where the photos of her body with the needle in, were released to the media which was widely reported as an overdose, but was actually caused by something else mixed in with the heroin.

    Also I know that in palliative care there is no actual upper dose limit for diamorphine and that massive doses can be given as long as it is titrated correctly.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As far as I know it is very hard to OD on pure heroin and the most deaths which are claimed to be OD's are actually bad reactions with other stuff mixed in.

    Its not that hard, its just in hospital there are normally checks on heart rate and breathing, so you can quickly tell if its having too much depressive effect on the CNS.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah and then they have a bitch of a problem getting them off the drug, clean or otherwise.

    I have no beef with drugs, I regulary take prescription and over the counter drusg for sinus and pain and such like so drugs aren;t bad. I have had to have high doeses of morphine for recovery from an operation as well and its great stuff.

    Its the illegal drugs that are the problem.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Its the illegal drugs that are the problem.

    In most cases its the law thats the problem.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how??

    despite the arguments, most professionals in the filed do not agree that legalising drugs is the answer.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    how??

    despite the arguments, most professionals in the filed do not agree that legalising drugs is the answer.

    Who doesnt? All the people I've met at the very least agree with prescribing heroin and decriminalising personal supply.

    Take the example of heroin.

    Black market supply is expensive, dangerous, fuels crime and violence, funds criminals and terrorists....

    Prescribed heroin is clean, much safer, much cheaper, does not fuel crime or fund criminals in anyway.

    Granted its not ideal for drug addicts to just sit around doing heroin, but they are doing that anyway, why not keep them quiet and the rest of us safe?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its an interesting point and quite convincing. However the legalisation of heroin will not solve all those problems. The organised crime syndicates run on a number of activites, including drugs and more then just the heroin trade. Other drugs would not be legalised and so you still have the crime, violence, health problem.

    It would also open the way for more people to become addicts and much easier to. Nearly anyone could do it and that could be a real burden and not a great way to forward society.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    well I just asked since whenever someone on here said anything to the notion they didn't support drug users and addicts, people came donw on them saying "do you know what drug addicts are?", "how do you know they were happy" etc etc.

    Eh? "support drug users and addicts"? What does that mean?
    Walkindude wrote:
    Its just seemed there was a lack of personal responsibilty.

    Partly, yes. But why do you think that some people lack personal responsibility? For a laugh? Because they're feckless? Or something else?
    Walkindude wrote:
    Heroin = Highly addictive and severly damging to the body. Has great effects psychically and psychologically. Apperently the hard drug of choice in Scotland.

    Actually heroin isn't that damaging to the body. Anyway - Scotland - a place that has been shat on from a great height by succesive governments, with some of the most deprived estates in the UK. It also has high rates of people addicted to a painkilling drug. See any connection?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    how??

    despite the arguments, most professionals in the filed do not agree that legalising drugs is the answer.

    Actually, a lot of professionals in the field do think that legalising drugs is the answer. I'm one of those professionals.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    It would also open the way for more people to become addicts and much easier to. Nearly anyone could do it and that could be a real burden and not a great way to forward society.

    Alcohol is easily available. Are you an alcoholic? If not, why not?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyway - Scotland - a place that has been shat on from a great height by succesive governments, with some of the most deprived estates in the UK. It also has high rates of people addicted to a painkilling drug. See any connection?

    What is it about people who, in the greatest time to be alive in history can sit on sink hole estates and just waste their time getting blinded on one substance or another?
    But why do you think that some people lack personal responsibility? For a laugh? Because they're feckless? Or something else?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Granted its not ideal for drug addicts to just sit around doing heroin, but they are doing that anyway, and ?
    most heroin addicsts aren't sitting around all day ...or they would never be able to fund their habits.

    many journalists and doctors and other proffesionals are heroin addicts ...they do not sit around all day.
    with a solid supply of the drug theres nothing stopping an addict living a perfectly normal life.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Actually, a lot of professionals in the field do think that legalising drugs is the answer.

    And in many other fields too. Many people in the criminal defence are very definitely for loosening drug laws, because most of them are pointless, and they don't make any difference.

    If drugs were legalised, and allowed on prescription, we'd lose over half our caseload. That can't be anything other than a good thing, surely?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    That can't be anything other than a good thing, surely?

    Unfortunately the gutter press and co will always be there to drive in the anti-drug agenda. Not only would you lessen your load but a great number of lives would already have been saved if the whole drug thing was taught properly and legalised.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You can not compare alcohol to heroin when alcohol is no where near as addictive!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    You can not compare alcohol to heroin when alcohol is no where near as addictive!

    And how do you know this? I live with an alcoholic, it can be just as dangerous as heroin.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didnt say it was dangerous, i said it is not as addictive. Everyone who uses herion becomes addicted, but with alcohol you can take it or leave it. Obviously alcoholics become addicted and can not leave it, but most people can. Thats all i am saying.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    Everyone who uses herion becomes addicted,

    Not true.
    subject13 wrote:
    but with alcohol you can take it or leave it. Obviously alcoholics become addicted and can not leave it, but most people can. Thats all i am saying.

    Alcohol is actually far more physically harmful than heroin.
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