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Sharon Resigns

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Links work just fine son. As for ramblings youve provided nothing in any of your posts but that very thing. Another johnny come lately troll by all appearances.

    That you once again twist what I have said to you to make yet another misguided rant is no surprise indeed. Nowhere did i say anything about holocaust denial. Go bury your head in your sands of ignorance and stop wasting the time of legitimate discussants here, thanks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    As for for Sharon again, maybe he hasnt changed one bit at all. But then again, maybe he has, he did forcibly remove Israelis from Palestian land recently didnt he?

    Getting back on topic for a while..... heres what Ari Avnery - veteran Israeli campaigner from Gush Shalom thinks of the Sharon move. (taken from an email)
    THE SHARON PARTY (called Kadima, "Forward") is built on a lie. Sharon has declared that the Road Map is its sole political platform. But the Road Map was dead before it was born. Sharon does not dream - and never intended - to carry out his part of the very first phase of its realization: the elimination of the hundred new settlements ("outposts") that were set up after 2000, and the freeze of all settlement activities.

    Sharon does not make a secret of his real intentions: to annex to Israel 58% of the West Bank, including the ever-expanding "settlement blocs", as well as various "security zones" (the extended Jordan valley and the roads between the settlements) and Great-Great-Jerusalem, up to the Ma'aleh Adumim settlement. Since there can be no Palestinian partner for such a "solution", he plans to implement this by a unilateral diktat, backed by force, without any dialogue with the Palestinians.

    As far as Sharon is concerned, social matters are a nuisance. He will, of course, publish some social program in order to compete with Peretz and the Likud, but it really does not interest him.

    I think we all know that - some people seem desperate to believe that a war criminal really is a man of peace ............
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You did ask me if i was the kind of person who would ignore the holocaust with revisionist history, you just insulted me for no reason other then your lack of any understanding! I am done with your ignorance Cland.

    This topic is now for anyone wanting to talk about Sharon again. I am done with it!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, subject, you only prove yourself guilty of that which you accused me, namely not reading what is written. Try reading it again without your knee jerk reactionist glasses on and maybe youll comprehend the point I was making.

    Then again, perhaps it's best you leave this topic to those of us who have spent years, if not decades, researching it. Ciao!

    Freep, you might be further interested in the critique endorsed by numerous Israeli scholars called "The Olga Document". Info about it here.

    Also important to note Sharon's "Herzliyah Speech" back in 2003 as translated by Uri Avnery...
    Excerpt of Sharon's own words...

    While we quietly prepare the big operation, we shall continue to flatter President Bush and praise his idiotic road map, without, of course, fulfilling any of our obligations under the map. But we shall blame the Palestinians for violating it.

    At the same time we shall pretend to seek negotiations with the Palestinians. We shall try to meet with Abu Ala as many times as possible and play the game to the end. When we are ready to go, we shall terminate the contacts, declare the road map dead and state sorrowfully that all our efforts to start peace negotiations have failed because of Arafat.

    http://www.arabworldbooks.com/arab/avnery2.htm

    About as clear an admission of the true intents of the man to the present day as one could seek.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Decades studying the the Israel-Palestine situation you say? so you are about 36 years old then, unless you started studying the topic before the age of 16...
    I would never have though you to be that old with such an immature way of behaving.
    "Ciao" indeed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    40 actually. Obviously didn't bother reading much of this thread at all did you? Dis sought to make my age into some insidious agenda on my part on a page or two back.

    As for immature, indictments from those who embody their every snide allegation would do well to realise they are ranting into a mirror.

    Later, troll!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Freep, you might be further interested in the critique endorsed by numerous Israeli scholars called "The Olga Document". Info about it here.

    Hee cheers Clan

    I remember seeing it before but had forgotten all about it.
    For many years now, Israeli leaders have been exerting themselves to depict the Palestinians as sub-human; and their exertions have been seconded and assisted by members of the cultural elite, media barons, vain functionaries and light-scribblers, right and left. We reject this racist arrogance with disgust, knowing that the Palestinians, as all other people, are neither devils nor angels, but just like us, are humans, created equal.

    How many people on here fall into the same trap?

    :yuck:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And there Cland is your immature and childish nature re-emerging to prove your inferior sense of arguments. Thank you for proving my points again!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    40 actually. Obviously didn't bother reading much of this thread at all did you? Dis sought to make my age into some insidious agenda on my part on a page or two back.

    There was nothing insidious about my comment. I merely find it somewhat unusual that a 40 year old man happens to use two politics forum that are both aimed at teenagers. I find it quite telling that you've never actually made any serious response to that observation.

    Although I do wish to point out that I find your opinions interesting. I remain grateful however that your fellow countrymen of Democratic and Republican persuasion have a far more moderate view of Israel/Palestine.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And I already did point out that I hadnt even been to that other site you mentioned in years. Nevertheless, by your standards, Dis, we'd best empty all classrooms of adult teachers and let kids instruct themselves lest there be an insidious agenda afoot. Such illogic deserves no more response than that.

    My fellow countrymen, those that is who masquerade as representatives of both parties, happen to be deeply beholden to powerful Zionist lobbies such as AIPAC and the WZO to maintain their political careers. Obviously you understand as little about the dynamics of US political life as you do the driving forces behind the state of Israel.

    As for the grassroots of my country, youll find many (as Ive already pointed out repeatedly) both Jew and non-Jew (individuals and organisations) who eschew Zionism and acknowledge its terrorist, colonialist, ethnocidal legacy from prior to the state's founding to the present day.

    Subject, all I and I suspect others here see are your childish rants, void of any "evidence" or supporting references which I and others have willingly supplied to you in the face of your derision and dismissiveness. Pretty clear who needs to take time and reflect on his behaviour in these forums.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And I already did point out that I hadnt even been to that other site you mentioned in years. Nevertheless, by your standards, Dis, we'd best empty all classrooms of adult teachers and let kids instruct themselves lest there be an insidious agenda afoot. Such illogic deserves no more response than that.

    Ah, so you see yourself as a teacher then? Educating teenagers on political youth forums about the real truth? Get ‘em while they’re young eh? Not working very well with subject13 though is it?

    It's interesting that you make that analogy. Fact is however a good history teacher covering this topic would try their best to be objective, balanced and fair and consider the works of respected mainstream historians in looking at the different arguments. You don't do that and not being a teacher don't have any obligation to.

    Going back to my perfectly reasonable question, out of the thousands of politics forums out there can't you see why someone might think it a tad unusual that out of all them you happen to pick two that are aimed at teenagers?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Keep up the blather dis. Can't argue the subject so you resort irrelevant presumptions about persons you know nothing about. Again, little surprise from all youve ever shown. Where else I happen to post, that too you can merely presume.

    As for your "mainstream" historians, I refer to those not given to endorsing the ideological fables of the Zionist-led status quo. These are more than sufficiently accredited and respected in their field and considerably more faithful to the dictats of scholarship and to the historic record, not to mention more devoted to the aspirations for peace (which will only come when Israel acknowledges its shameful practices and denounces the ideology which has, to this day, desperately sought to perpetuate the dehumanisation of the indigenous peoples of the land).

    Those with a real interest in becoming informed, unlike yourself and subject and other past dismissive types we've seen here, will undoubtedly see the desperation of those writers who merely reaffirm the ideolgically-inspired myths propagated by the Israeli state for the self-delusion it is the more they read.

    Others will, like yourselves, take the mentally expedient route and resort to denial and irrelevant diversionary retorts. Care to continue the inanity with your newfound counterpart or may we return to the meat of the issue?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Those with a real interest in becoming informed, unlike yourself and subject and other past dismissive types we've seen here, will undoubtedly see the desperation of those writers who merely reaffirm the ideolgically-inspired myths propagated by the Israeli state for the self-delusion it is the more they read.

    So because subject13 and Disillusioned don't conform to your idea of what is justice in the conflict, then they have no interest in becoming informed?
    Faur enough, you have your point of view about the happenings - but saying that they have no interest in becoming informed is a downright lie. subject13 has according to his/her own words stated that he/she has read all of your links. Disillusioned came with his sources which he conforms to and is informed by - yet you have the nerve saying that they have no real interest of becoming informed.

    Basically what can be gathered is, that people should either conform to your notion or they're wrong.
    Arrogance at it's best.

    Either way, go on.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Btw, according to Danmarks Radio (Danish equivalent of BBC) Peres' spokesman has stated that Peres might join Kadima, after Avoda rejected him as their leader.*

    This should be interesting.

    *http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Udland/2005/11/28/164756.htm
    Sorry, it's in Danish. But yeah. The only source I've read on it so far.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No more than once can argue the supreme arrogance of those who would revise and falsify and/or deny the historic record atrocities of Zionism and its central role in perverting any hope of lasting peace up to the present day.

    Im not interested in comformity, that is already a matter for the status quo to which adherents to Zionist lies do indeed conform. Recognition of those lies and acknowledgement of the true longrunning desperate intentions of the Israeli state is what I argue.

    Nice to see you've rushed out of hiding to add your unsurprising quips to the mix Jacq. Been wondering when you'd resurface.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nice to see you've rushed out of hiding to add your unsurprising quips to the mix Jacq. Been wondering when you'd resurface.

    Aw, nice to hear that you've missed me :)

    Truth is that I've had better things to do with my time than reading your unsurprisng quips - Just that it started fucking snowing today, so I am staying in.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Woo! You're back!

    You only come here when the weather is too crap outside? Nice :p I must say though, I am with Cland on this one, no-one wants to realise the Truth of what the Israeli leadership has and continues to do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    Btw, according to Danmarks Radio (Danish equivalent of BBC) Peres' spokesman has stated that Peres might join Kadima, after Avoda rejected him as their leader.*

    This should be interesting.

    *http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Udland/2005/11/28/164756.htm
    Sorry, it's in Danish. But yeah. The only source I've read on it so far.
    Reuters is carrying it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tal,
    Good to see you again :p

    Hope you're enjoying Sheffield!

    J
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Woo! You're back!

    You only come here when the weather is too crap outside? Nice I must say though, I am with Cland on this one, no-one wants to realise the Truth of what the Israeli leadership has and continues to do.

    Truth is relative. And that's what Clandestine continues to dismiss.
    Tal,
    Good to see you again :p

    Hope you're enjoying Sheffield!

    J

    Sheffield is awesome. Apart from the weather.
    Though I have to admit that I can't wait to get back home. Less than 3 weeks now!
    It'll be amazing to see my family and friends again (though I have been lucky, and had both my dad visiting me, as well as 3 friends from back home) and my mom's homecooking! I only learnt how to cook rice and pasta the other week - and I'm in self-catered!


    Congrats on your Oxford interview, btw :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Truth is relative. And that's what Clandestine continues to dismiss.

    Bollocks.

    Carry on with your wacky discussion. Which i have to agree with you about, is entirely free from facts. "Israel"??? "Palestine"? how about some facts before you start to fall out?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good god. As if the Israeli-Palestinian debate wasn't complex and heated enough... imagine if you add the Klintock Factor to it (i.e. there is no such thing as Israel or Palestine)... :eek:

    I'll put the kettle on :D;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    Truth is relative. And that's what Clandestine continues to dismiss.

    So, you'd agree its fine to deny the Holocaust would you?

    :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sharon Osbourne quit X-Factor? :O

    joking
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Aladdin wrote:
    Good god. As if the Israeli-Palestinian debate wasn't complex and heated enough... imagine if you add the Klintock Factor to it (i.e. there is no such thing as Israel or Palestine)... :eek:

    I'll put the kettle on :D;)

    Heheh, this could make it all the more fun.

    Let's actuall tell the two countries they don't exist, and therefore why are they disputing over borders which do not exist? At least they'll stop fighting whilst they wonder what the jolly fuck is going on.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, you'd agree its fine to deny the Holocaust would you?

    :confused:

    Sorry, re-reading it, I understand that my statement is pretty ambiguous. Didn't mean to imply that attrocities don't occur. But rather that there are different opinions on the reasoning and legitimacy behind the conflict.
    Most probably like there would be about the Holocaust.
    That was what I was trying to hint towards.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Klintock Factor

    Could work though, piss off both sides by insisting on facts so they have a common enemy. :lol:

    Two sugars, btw.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    Sorry, re-reading it, I understand that my statement is pretty ambiguous. Didn't mean to imply that attrocities don't occur. But rather that there are different opinions on the reasoning and legitimacy behind the conflict.
    Most probably like there would be about the Holocaust.
    That was what I was trying to hint towards.

    Thanks - that makes things clearer. :)

    Sometimes opinions can be quite muddled though.

    Take Benny the racist.

    1) Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians = good.

    2) Ethnic cleansing of Jews = bad.

    :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Heheh, this could make it all the more fun.

    Let's actuall tell the two countries they don't exist, and therefore why are they disputing over borders which do not exist? At least they'll stop fighting whilst they wonder what the jolly fuck is going on.
    You know what? Klintock might have the key to it all after all...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Could work though, piss off both sides by insisting on facts so they have a common enemy. :lol:

    Two sugars, btw.
    Well as I've just said to Gerbil it's not such a crazy argument to put forward when it comes to that region :D
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