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Sharon Resigns

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Had it not been for Ms Platt's balanced and informative reports, it would have been difficult to distinguish between the BBC coverage of the occupied territories and that of the Israeli Broadcasting Authority. Ms Platt admirably tried for many months to "balance" a simple imbalanced reality: of Israeli occupation and Palestinian victimisation. The atrocities on the ground - the killing of children and women and the blowing up of houses - warranted an emotional response as it is, and it was only natural that once, and only once, this would show in her reports (as many BBC reporters allowed themselves a show of emotion when reporting the deaths of George Best or Princess Diana). Only outside pressure could have produced such an ill-thought procedure and action.

    Pappe
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Take Benny the racist.

    For a decent historian their personal political views aren’t directly relevant. Whilst you’re misrepresenting Benny Morris’s political views they’re of little concern to me. I personally agree with G.R. Elton, a pretty authoritative figure in historiography. He advised judging the historian on their academic work, not on their political views; I like him believe the two can be separated and that somebody can detach themselves to consider something purely from the view of a historian. In his work I feel Morris does that successfully. As do some extremely pro-Palestinian historians – Nur Masalha for instance who use Morris's work to support their findings. Finkelstein too, like Masalha only really disputes the conclusions that Morris makes, neither dispute much of Morris's actual evidence and narrative. Both simply reach different conclusions based to a large extent on Morris's own evidence. I'm quite surprised that somebody as well-read as yourself has failed to realise this..

    And anyway you act as if Morris is some ultra-Orthodox pro-settler fanatical Zionist. Morris was boycotted by the Israeli educational establishment for years because he was seen as a left wing radical. He has consistently advocated withdrawal from the Disputed Territories and he himself was jailed for refusing to do military service in the West Bank.
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    Sheffield is awesome. Apart from the weather.
    Though I have to admit that I can't wait to get back home. Less than 3 weeks now!
    It'll be amazing to see my family and friends again (though I have been lucky, and had both my dad visiting me, as well as 3 friends from back home) and my mom's homecooking! I only learnt how to cook rice and pasta the other week - and I'm in self-catered!


    Congrats on your Oxford interview, btw :)

    Thanks, I'm not hopeful of an offer coming of it but it'll be an experience. And it's a few days in Oxford with accomodation and food all paid for by the college! ;) Even though it's only two interviews they require me to stay from Tuesday till the Friday. Fingers crossed anyway, I haven't really done as much reading as I'd have liked to and I'm pretty weak on a lot areas they will probably ask me about so with less than a week to go I'm trying my best to get as much reading as possible in. Although from what people say a lot of it is how you think in how you answer their questions..Anyway will have to wait and see.

    I'm glad you're enjoying Sheffield..Surely the weather's not that much worse than Denmark? Although I guess that dull grey empty sky with all that drizzle is pretty unique to Yorkshire. Hope you enjoy your break! :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whilst you’re misrepresenting Benny Morris’s political views they’re of little concern to me.

    I certainly haven't misrepresented his views on the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians - his only regret was that there wasn't more of it.

    So, unless you're about to demonstrate that he thought ethnic cleansing of Jews was a good thing, then I think you'll find you're wrong.

    The implications of choosing to side with ethnic cleansing are, in reality, pretty damn horrific, are they not?
    And anyway you act as if Morris is some ultra-Orthodox pro-settler fanatical Zionist. Morris was boycotted by the Israeli educational establishment for years because he was seen as a left wing radical. He has consistently advocated withdrawal from the Disputed Territories and he himself was jailed for refusing to do military service in the West Bank.



    And none of that changes the fact he is a racist. That you go to pains to paint him as a member of the moderate pro-Israel camp, says nothing good at all for the moderate pro-Israel camp.

    Geddit?

    :sour:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As a chronographer Morris is indeed scholarly, but the mark of distinction between a true historian and a simple chronographer of events is indeed the conclusions they derive from the evidence. Politically dishonest renderings of the evidence - for example, of the purges, massacres and expulsions against and of the indigenous peoples of the land by the militant Zionist founders of the state - are precisely what Morris is taken to task over by more honest historians like Pappe and Finkelstein (amongst others previously mentioned).

    So long as one resorts to whitewashed renderings of empirical data of atrocities, one remains untrue to the historical record in the end analysis.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You seem to have little interest in Morris's findings and are simply obsessed with his political views...So anyway lets consider the whole of this interview rather than selectively highlighting a few bits as you've done.

    I won't paste the entire interview here although for anybody that wishes to read it they'll find it here. I don't agree with Morris on some of his points but I think to label him a racist is simplistic, he rationally supports his arguments and the justification he gives is credible. Also putting the conflict into perspective in the interview I think he makes a very strong case.

    Anyway I'll discuss Morris's academic work but I'm not debating what he said in one interview with you, it's boring and of little significance. If you wish to talk to Morris about his political views I'd suggest that you email him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting interview.

    He seemed to be saying it was ok for the so-called "palestinian's" to murder him in his own bed. Fair enough I suppose. Probably hasn't thought o fit that way, but he doesn't seem too bright.

    Not much of a thinker (loony believes that such things as "states" can exist!), and a lousy historian of "US" past. He also can't count, if you read the section on rape.

    All in all, one of the biggest idiots I have read in a while.

    Has some top phrases though -

    "small war crimes."

    was my favourite.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You seem to have little interest in Morris's findings and are simply obsessed with his political views...So anyway lets consider the whole of this interview rather than selectively highlighting a few bits as you've done.

    I won't paste the entire interview here although for anybody that wishes to read it they'll find it here. I don't agree with Morris on some of his points but I think to label him a racist is simplistic, he rationally supports his arguments and the justification he gives is credible. Also putting the conflict into perspective in the interview I think he makes a very strong case.

    Anyway I'll discuss Morris's academic work but I'm not debating what he said in one interview with you, it's boring and of little significance. If you wish to talk to Morris about his political views I'd suggest that you email him.

    Yes - I've read the interview thankyou.
    Something like a cage has to be built for them. I know that sounds terrible. It is really cruel. But there is no choice. There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another."

    Thats nice - reducing an occupied people to animals, doncha think?

    And you still want to pretend that his racism doesn't influence his academia?

    The problem is this ....... you simply aint disillusioned enough.

    :nervous:
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