Women 'deserve' to be raped

Former Member

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

I don't get it at all really...

Something this awful comes out and then people try to partially lift the blame off rapists, or make it seem like it's the woman's fault... Every time you get statistics about the treatment of women, you get certain people getting defensive, saying "ohh but xxx happens to men" when the thread is about women, not men... Or they accuse this or that of sexism...

At the end of the day this is a woman's issue.

no it's an issue that affects people, their friends and family and society as a whole because it's an act where if i could stop it, i would with the snap of a finger! and how the fuck am i defending rapists, where have i said that?

do you not agree that the pollster have used langauge that means different things to different people and that using the word 'blame' instead of responsibility would have produced far more realistic results in terms of attitudes - ive seen almost better polling questions from charles clarke on the anti terroism legislation

oh i give up on some of you, politicising social issues :banghead: we're saying they've used poor questioning to get a more 'oooooohh look at these results' response publically

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

oh i give up on some of you, politicising social issues

What makes you think social issues aren't political? Everything is political.

Former Member

Kermit wrote:

The questions are actually clearly shown:

Would it make a difference to you if the crime was not rape but mugging, and do you think that would change the responses?

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

Would it make a difference to you if the crime was not rape but mugging, and do you think that would change the responses?

I think it would extend the responses, but I would still be as disgusted.

The blame is entirely on the criminal not the victim. The responsibility for not doing it is completely on the victim not the criminal.

You can, of course, take some steps to ease the likelihood of it happening. Lock your windows and you're less likely to get burgled. That doesn't mean it is the responsibility of the homeowner to make his house a fortress to prevent it happening.

Besides which, this all ignores some basic points. The majority of rapists are known to their victims, and quite often the woman isn't blind drunk, she's a bit tipsy in the company of someone she thinks she can trust.

I suspect that many "blind drunk" women aren't at all, and have had drinks spiked- I've seen it happen to my wife, and they act like they've had 46 pints. It's noticeable if the woman is with her friends at 8pm, not so much if she's being carried out of a club by a man who looks like her partner at 2am. What's more, few women would think that they'd been spiked, and would just assume they got plastered by accident; the wife didn't realise she'd been spiked, it was simply that I knew she'd only had one drink.

Placebo: the question wasn't blame, it was are they responsible? Two different things.

MoonRat: that's exactly the point I was making. It doesn't matter what issue it is, as soona s women victims are mentioned you get some nobend bleating on about "How it happens to men too!!!11one1eleven". Yes, it does, and that should be acknowledged. But my suspicion is that these people deliberately make that point to denigrate the suffering and risk that women have ahead of men, especially in terms of DV and rape. 90% of all DV is committed by men, and I would suggest a similar amount of rapes are committed by men.

The best way of denigrating something that predominantly affects women is to moan about how men aren't considered enough.

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

Would it make a difference to you if the crime was not rape but mugging, and do you think that would change the responses?

It's very rare that consent is an issue in muggings...

Former Member

Kermit wrote:

I think it would extend the responses, but I would still be as disgusted.

The blame is entirely on the criminal not the victim. The responsibility for not doing it is completely on the victim not the criminal.

You can, of course, take some steps to ease the likelihood of it happening. Lock your windows and you're less likely to get burgled. That doesn't mean it is the responsibility of the homeowner to make his house a fortress to prevent it happening.

The point I was making is that if you were asked those questions over the phone by the polling company, you would probably be thinking to yourself 'if she wasn't drunk then the likelihood of rape is reduced, therefore yes she must be partially responsible'. If you change the context of the question, you would probably find that much fewer people actually believed that rape is in any way the fault of the victim.

Besides which, this all ignores some basic points. The majority of rapists are known to their victims, and quite often the woman isn't blind drunk, she's a bit tipsy in the company of someone she thinks she can trust.

Of course, it's a different crime to most but that scenario isn't implied in the questions.

Former Member

Man Of Kent wrote:

It's very rare that consent is an issue in muggings...

I don't follow. Again, the point is that when people think "rape" they tend to associate the term with deserted parks late at night and the victim being forcibly raped with the threat of violence. As opposed to the - more likely but less newsworthy - rapes where consent is contested.

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

I don't follow.

Rape is one of the few, if any other, crimes where consent is an issue, apart from the clear cases you refer to - deserted park, force etc

Again, the point is that when people think "rape" they tend to associate the term with deserted parks late at night and the victim being forcibly raped with the threat of violence. As opposed to the - more likely but less newsworthy - rapes where consent is contested.

Which is why you get the blame game. Where there is force, consent is hard to argue. Which is the link with muggings.

However, in cases like this, where no apparent force is used, then I guess that some people think it more likely for the woman to be "asking for it", or for the man to argue that she said it was fine...

Thing is, much as I tried to say earlier, consenting - and therefore exoneration - is not an issue with, to use your example, mugging.