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Prevention, why wait until you are in such agony, when you can prevent it?
I wouldn't even ask a doctor to do it, they is not their role in life.
Legally it is different, morally? tougher.
Thing is animals find it difficult to top themselves...
It isn't. For me the moral aspect is that you want someone else to do it for you.
Certainly.
I don't think it is a fair argument to make, really.
But to draw a parallel, it is a vet's role in life?
If a doctor felt it was for the best, then they should be allowed to do it if the patient consented previously.
If the patient agreed when well that "hen x happens I want to be put to sleep", and someone is willing to do it, then I don't think it should be illegal.
That is why there is a legal distinction between murder and killing someone because of a suicide pact, for instance.
So do paralplegics and terminal cancer patients.
Why not/ If you are asking someone else to act for you, you have to justify why you won't do it yourself surely?
To continue the parallel, what if the patient isn't given the option at all? We are making that distinction, so why not others?
I agree with you on the former but not the latter, for reasons previously mentioned.
However, being paraplegics isn't necessarily terminal...
just because you are terminally ill doesn't mean you can't still enjoy life, or live it to the full. look at jane tomlinson. imagine all the stuff she'd have missed out on if she'd have topped herself as soon as she was diagnosed. but when her time comes, i highly doubt she'll enjoy those last few weeks/days/hours.
what if the diagnosis was wrong? what if you did away with yourself the day before a cure was found? humans are generally pretty hopeful creatures. but there comes a point where all your hope has to end. the point of no return, i guess.
if i were dying, and i knew it, i would want to wait until the very last scrap of enjoyment had gone from my life, and there was absolutely no chance of a miracle. and then i would want to slip away. trouble is, by then you've less chance to be able to do anything about it. i also wouldn't trust myself to take the right amount of pills/whatever. what if, despite my best efforts, i didn't die?
i'm not suggesting that we should put down all terminally ill people, of course not. i just don't think it should be a crime to help someone to die, in those very specific circumstances. i guess even reducing the seriousness of the crime would do.
Suffering is so subjective - some cancer patients will have well controlled (or, more likely, tolerable) pain at the end and this should be expected. No-one likes to witness the suffering of others, least of all close relatives, but if even assisted suicide were legalised (and I think this is the most likely staging post before full euthanasia), the relatives would have to be pretty certain that their loved one was ready to go, and that the pain wasn't merely transient.
Why?
If it is compassionate to ease your dog out of needless and severe pain, why is it not compassionate to ease your mother out of needless and severe pain.
Why is a person dying in agony different to my Border Collie dying in agony?
If someone is dying, the pain isn't "transient". It isn't going to get better.
We can't communicate feelings, hopes and fears, with animals and so putting them down is the only way we can ease the suffering. We assume that this is best, and there is no counter argument because they are animals.
I think to compare the two is just playing with emotive language to make a cheap point.
And if anyone is suggesting the medical profession is incapable of establishing whether someone is in possession of full mental faculties, I suggest they demand the immediate release of every institutionalised mental patient in the world, as we clearly have no reason to hold them.
if there is absolutely no chance of recovery, or of management of the condion, if the patient has asked for it while sound of mind and not been influenced by anyone else, if they fully understand the implications, there are a couple of doctors in agreement (similar to the way i believe it works with abortion) and they've possibly had some kind of counselling about the implications of their decision.
No moral objection.
It isn't scoring cheap points to compare a dying dog to a dying person. Unless you are trying to claim that humans don't feel pain like dogs do.
We can assume that the human wants it to happen if the human has given consent, and given informed consent before the illness took hold. I would want to say to my family "kill me if I'm in pain and I can't do it", and not have them prosecuted for manslaughter.
However, I am firmly of the belief that our perspective changes as soon as we are put in that situation. I would not want someone else to end my life only because I would not want to put them in that position.
I think there is something very wrong with a society that offers death as a form of healthcare provision.
Like Kermit has said, it's already morally right. And if my father was severely ill and suffering and he asked me to help him, I would do it and the law can fuck itself up the arse.
What would you do?
Its quite obvious that these armchair supporters of euthanasia have never been in the position where they would have to condemn their loved ones to death.
Indeed. It is a far harder thing to do when the situation applies to you personally. You are consigning a loved one to death, and I just don't know if I could do it myself. I would never see them again.
just because something is legalised doesn't mean that everyone has to do it. there are obviously some people who are prepared to assist their loved ones to die the way they want, i would do it, depending on the circumstances, and i would want the law to protect me.
and if i were terminally ill, i would like to think that my wishes would be honoured, but i find the idea that anyone helping me would be prosecuted totally horriffic.
If you Border Collie bit a child we'd kill it too. Would you do the same with all cases of assault?
We claim to value human life, we enshrine the "right to life" in law. There is a difference, as I said earlier, between legality and morality.
I don't disagree with anything else you have said here, but this point is the one which raises my questions. It's about passing the responsibility because you waited until you could no longer do it yourself.
If you want to die, and you have time between diagnosis and when you reach the point of no return, why shouldn't you take responsibility for living up to your own wishes.
It's your choice, so it's your responsibility IMHO.
Oh, Matadore, where would we be without your ill-informed nonsense?
There isn't anyone alive who hasn't seen people they care about die. I've had three grandparents and a great grandparent go now, all in abject pain, and nothing to help them.
I don't believe it is passing responsibility, MoK. People who can do it themselves would do it themselves, but they wouldn't do it whilst they still had a life worth leading. That would be ridiculous. I don't think there should be a compunction on anyone to perform the euthanasia, but if people are willing to dleiver that palliative care, and the patient has requested it, then they should be allowed to free from prosecution.
I think death is a form of palliative care in some cases. I think it can be the best form of palliative care. But you don't have palliative care if you don't need it; I don't dose myself up on codeine just in case i break my legs later.
All you have to do is stop breathing and you'll slide on out in no time.
Or does people's ANS not constitute wanting to live?
So if doctors gave terminal illness sufferers sucide kits you'd be fine with that?
This is a tough subject, and I've never suggested otherwise, but I stand by the point that society should never accept that helping someone to die is "a good thing" because it opens too many other dark passages.