Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options

luxury goods.

2

Comments

  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Kentish wrote:
    I heard they were rioting in Paris as well. :yes:
    Yeah... and they have been causing hurricane in the USA.
    Damnit, we have to stop them.
    Joke about femenists
    :lol: awesome.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    A washing machine is - but ideally, everyone would have one - they are useful. Yet a luxury.

    Washing machines are not luxury goods.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    too late, a guy named Lewis Black already did a stand-up bit about it.

    "Pat Robertson said that god alowed 9/11 to happen because he was angry, in particular with the feminists. And I thought to myself 'now there is a name I didn't expect to hear'....'and god looked down from the heavens, and he saw that there was no stew in the oven, and the spice rack was in dissaray and he said I WILL SMITE THEM ALL!'

    But Pat Robertson said that god actualy came to him in a dream and told him this. And I thought to myself 'well that can't be right' because god had called me about 4 hours earlier and told me he was angry because of dick heads like Pat Robertson" :lol:

    :D
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    minimi38 wrote:
    Washing machines are not luxury goods.
    What are they then?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    explain :chin:

    We've been here before - you seem to think that socialism/communism implies the state. It doesn't.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    primmo's are twats
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    We've been here before - you seem to think that socialism/communism implies the state. It doesn't.
    we have? I don't remeber that, not sayin it didn't happen, just that I don't remeber it. Anyhow could you explain please?

    I do think that socialism implies a state, mostly because it needs a state to implement it. Communism on the other hand doesn't really need a state (at least in the form a state takes today). On which count am I mistaken?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    primmo's are twats
    :lol: yeah, but to be fair they probably wouldn't be very big fans of folks like us either. :lol:
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Communism is a stateless, classless society
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    :lol: yeah, but to be fair they probably wouldn't be very big fans of folks like us either. :lol:
    Or that we are using computers, wearing clothes, living in houses.... let's face it. They are... idiots.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem with implementing that however is the US.

    State-less communism would be easily pickings for the American war machine. Which of course leads to on to theory of international revolution...which certainly isn't on the cards.

    Individual nations have headed towards "real" socialism before, and America's standard response was dropping bombs/corrupting the political process/supporting counter-revolutions. Shit, even in this country, Aire Neive was colluding with MI6 to do Tony Benn over back in the 80's.

    I'm no fan of the 'ra but i'm glad they whacked that fuck.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a washing machine is not a luxury to a person who has to wash for a household and hold a job down ya dimwits!

    antiques ...most things that are simply old ...aren't usualy ollectable or worth a penny.
    have a look at the value of roman coins ...2'ooo YEARS OLD and usualy worthless ...cos theres so many of them.

    quality and beauty are usualy what people are looking for ...certainly not for using.

    if people are allowed to cllect valuable antiques ...and pass them on to their children ...soesn't this stop socialism in its tracks?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well socialism is an opposition to the idea of profit and capital, the idea of an item having value added to it in order to create profit for individuals that had no part in its creation - so in an ideal socialist state they just wouldn't cost more than the value of their creation.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    Well socialism is an opposition to the idea of profit and capital, the idea of an item having value added to it in order to create profit for individuals that had no part in its creation - so in an ideal socialist state they just wouldn't cost more than the value of their creation.
    thats bollox jim.
    a passionate clock collector will pay what he has to to obtain what he wants.
    thus the value goes up.
    when you have a collection of clocks ...they are no ;onger worth the individual prices but a higher price as a collection.
    there is no way any political system can stop this from happening and still call itself free.
    when someone has amassed a valuable collection of desirable things ...and decides to sell them for any reason ...they will then have money to purchase ...something grand?

    or would socialism ...ban this kind of behaviour?
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    ...something grand?

    That something grand would certainly not be as overpriced as it is today.
    Things just do not cost htat much to make. You pay over the odds because it has a stupid label on it.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    That something grand would certainly not be as overpriced as it is today.
    Things just do not cost htat much to make. You pay over the odds because it has a stupid label on it.
    you pay the going rate for a valuable antique or piece of art ...you do not pay over the odds cos of a stupid label.

    you pay for rarity beauty quality.

    were not talking fashion labels here.

    something grand may well be a nice big house with a nice beeeeg garden.

    will stamp collecting have to be made illegal?

    no matter what political system you dream up even everyday things can become scarce ...tea sugar bread ...the price will go up way beyond it's production costs simply because of demand.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    or would socialism ...ban this kind of behaviour?
    encourage that it be phased out?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a washing machine is not a luxury to a person who has to wash for a household and hold a job down ya dimwits!

    antiques ...most things that are simply old ...aren't usualy ollectable or worth a penny.
    have a look at the value of roman coins ...2'ooo YEARS OLD and usualy worthless ...cos theres so many of them.

    quality and beauty are usualy what people are looking for ...certainly not for using.

    if people are allowed to cllect valuable antiques ...and pass them on to their children ...soesn't this stop socialism in its tracks?

    No. Next?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thats bollox jim.
    a passionate clock collector will pay what he has to to obtain what he wants.
    thus the value goes up.
    when you have a collection of clocks ...they are no ;onger worth the individual prices but a higher price as a collection.
    there is no way any political system can stop this from happening and still call itself free.
    when someone has amassed a valuable collection of desirable things ...and decides to sell them for any reason ...they will then have money to purchase ...something grand?

    or would socialism ...ban this kind of behaviour?

    No. Next?

    Look mr - it might be an idea if you had an idea of what socialism actually means. Maybe you should read some of the threads on here and some of the links I've posted?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you pay the going rate for a valuable antique or piece of art ...you do not pay over the odds cos of a stupid label.

    you pay for rarity beauty quality.

    were not talking fashion labels here.

    something grand may well be a nice big house with a nice beeeeg garden.

    will stamp collecting have to be made illegal?

    no matter what political system you dream up even everyday things can become scarce ...tea sugar bread ...the price will go up way beyond it's production costs simply because of demand.

    You've missed the entire bleeding point (as per). Have a look at this
    http://www.infoshop.org/faq/
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you seem to think that socialism/communism implies the state

    Of course it does.

    How else could you enforce socialism on a populace that doesnt want it? Through state coercion and the removal of personal freedom, of course.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you impose capitalism on people? Through the state. How do you let people decide what they want to do and have control over their own lives? Libertarian socialism/communism (aka anarchism).
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you let people decide what they want to do and have control over their own lives?

    Why do you make this so complicated. All you have to do to let people live their own lives is nothing. Just let them get on with it.

    Libertarian socialism is a contradiction in terms. Freedom lies in less collectivisation, not more.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thats bollox jim.
    a passionate clock collector will pay what he has to to obtain what he wants.
    thus the value goes up.
    when you have a collection of clocks ...they are no ;onger worth the individual prices but a higher price as a collection.
    there is no way any political system can stop this from happening and still call itself free.
    when someone has amassed a valuable collection of desirable things ...and decides to sell them for any reason ...they will then have money to purchase ...something grand?

    or would socialism ...ban this kind of behaviour?

    Problem here mr, is that socialism has no problem with that. My problem with capitalism is that it is based on accumulation of capital, capital that is gained through exploitation (i.e. appropriation of someone else's labour). That isn't the case in your little scenario is it?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would a collective in control of capital deem it neccessary to build something like in MRs example, just to satisfy an obscure desire? Would they deem it a waste of time or resources?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    People would be free to build whatever they wanted. Personally, I envisage a society in which the tyranny of wage labour is ended so people would have more time to be creative and create beautiful objects and works of art.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IF capital is publicly owned wouldnt people have to have approval to do this though?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What do you mean by "capital"? What do you mean by "publicly owned"?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You say people will be free to make what they want. But if the the means of production are owned by a collective why would everyone let you have the tools to build the niche products you want in your life?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Problem here mr, is that socialism has no problem with that. My problem with capitalism is that it is based on accumulation of capital, capital that is gained through exploitation (i.e. appropriation of someone else's labour). That isn't the case in your little scenario is it?
    i know what your saying here blag but ...capital gained every which way would end up being frowned upon because of human failings ...
Sign In or Register to comment.