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But to a far more acceptable degree, making sure the average joe's dont get shat upon. And also now it is becoming more a union of countries, with a joint defence initive too. I wonder if that will be a big cock-up or work?
The British attitude towards Europe won't help, that's certain.
The EU is prone to fuck ups, so I wouldn't be surprised. Public ignorance and misinterpretation which is promoted by sections of the press definitely has to share some of the blame however.
I don't 'beleive' it, I know it........
Do you not think that Spain has benefited from being in the EU, from the market access etc?
Do you really think free-markets have never helped the poor?
Odd how 'the poor' of the West were always better off than 'the poor' of the East back in the days of the USSR isn't it?
Well I do not know what is entailed in this agreement, do you?
It might require the removal of such subsidies etc......
Maybe the US would dump, but US markets would also be exposed to competition form cheaper Latin American exports.......
Oh dear. "Free" trade only benefits western multinationals, because it seeks to liberalise markets. What basically happens is that organisations like the WTO etc force less developed countries to privatise things like water companies in return for trade and aid. The result of this is massive rises in water prices to the detriment of the majority of people in that country, but it allows western companies to make shit loads of money exploiting the market.
You are confusing the issue with conditionality and aid, these are related but are not the same thing at all.
Free trade is not about liberalisation of internal markets but about liberalisation of external markets i.e. less tariffs, quotas, subsidies etc
Yes it does mean free-market capitalism, that is exactly what it means because the Eu is at heart a free-trade zone (though it has become much more)
Privatisation, working rights etc are seperate issues....
This is about free-trade specifically, something which I thought most people around this site supported with regards to make poverty history etc....
You need to have a word with that economics lecturer of yours.
Where the fuck do you pick this stuff up from?
Do you have an actual response?
MPH was asking for the developed world to drop trade barriers, reduce subsidies etc was it not?
This is trade liberalisation, a move to freer trade.
Call it fair trade if you like, doesn't make a difference........
For many reasons, to improve efficiency, to allow consumers access to cheaper goods etc and as a means of getting reciprocal access to trade liberalisation in other countries.
Free trade also encourages investment and allows access to better technology......
http://www.wdm.org.uk/campaigns/watergats/index.htm
Which is the self interest aspect I was trying to cover.
I'm not entirely sure I follow all of the other aspects though. Those cheaper goods mean less profit internally and efficiency is irrelevant if you have a closed market...
Errrrmmm...maybe you should read their website, 'cos you're dead wrong on this.
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/whatwewant/trade.shtml
Even odder if America is to be beleived is how alot of them now wish they were still under the USSR - at least they had new clothes and food on the table.
They don't anymore. And often have to turn to crime. And how the Russian Armed forces wish it was still there - at least they got paid! How the Pensioners wish it was - They got a state Pension for their years of work! How the people buying Chelsea and TVR love it now - they managed to get rich quick off the collapse. How the Russian Mafia love it - They've even got men in US Congress!
Source
Do you know that similar conditions are part of this agreement?
The issue is free trade, not privatisation............
Less profit yes, but consumers benefit, which is good....
Efficiency is absolutely vital to all economies. Protectionist economics fosters ineffiency by stifling competition and protecting producers in areas which that economy should not be producing, thus resources are wasted.
That is why the CAP is such a waste, masses of money is given to our farmers when people in the developed world could do it far cheaper.
Yes they might call it 'trade justice' but essentially they are calling for freer trade involving the developed world dropping its protection.....
Yes I agree that the fall of communism was badly handled and a lot of people have suffered since then.
However I would expect that within quite a short while the Eastern bloc countries will have attained a prosperity thtey could not have dreamt of under the communist sytsem......
privatisation is part of the free trade philosophy
Did you actually read it? Do you want me to quote it?
No, it's not. The "free trade philosophy" is being hijacked by special interests to promote privatisation, or modern feudalisation or whatever you want to call it.
Privatisation is by it's nature anti free trade.
Thats as maybe but this thread is about free trade, that is the issue, unless you know that privatisation etc is specifically part of that deal, that fair enough.....
Yes, there point is that the developed world is pretending to be advocating free trade when what they are doing in practise is protecting their own markets.
What MPH want is real free trade.
Are they or aren't they advocating an end to developed world protectionism?
Yes they are.
Is this trade liberalisation, a call for freer trade?
Yes it is.