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Sad or infuriating?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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Nothing, bless them, it's capitalism, the state, the war on terror (excuses ad nauseum). Please don't blame people for their own actions...
:rolleyes:
Accepting someone's upbringing and environment as the main factors in how they turn out as a person is crucial to understanding problems like this.
if you can't accept that...you just continue pushing solutions which largely add to the problem.
Does that mean we should excuse them of anything they do in the future?
understand != excuse
Using it to mitigate attacking an ambulance is another.
wouldn't it be better to simply restrain the passenger so that the crew could give them the necessary medical attention while on the way to the hospital?
No. But we're all products of our environments. You have a bad environment and it'll fuck you up in various ways. Rather than lambasting these people, it'd surely be more productive to look at the root cause - environment. People can rant all they want about "responsibility" and all the rest of it, but you're denying the reality of the human condition.
Not really. Alot of people from bad backgrounds have gone on to be respectable members of society... unless of course you are brainwashed into being a Nazi or something by your parents.
Alot of people from good background of gone on to be useless scummers too...
might be, but then again putting someone into the back of a vehicle and driving them somewhere without their permission sounds a lot like kidnapping to me... I am fuzzy on the legal details of the whole thing. Regardless of the legal issues, what I meant was more in terms of practicality.
No, I'm not denying it. I just believe that I, my colleagues and my family should be protected. Part of that is deterrence, part is imprisonment, part is trying to prevent people from being "affected" to the extent that they believe this kind of action is every acceptable.
Question is how you achieve that last part, without also invoking the previous two. If you invoke the previous two then you accpt that people are personally responsible for their own actions, regardless of their background.
Whilst I would love to see a utopia where everyone got on, I think we all know that is never going to be.
If they don't want to get in, and are able to vocalise this, then the ambulance service cannot take them - is my understanding.
Ditto, if the person can vocalise that they do not want treatment, then it is assault if you treat them...
So you're saying that your environment doesn't count? You obviously don't properly understand yourself yet, because if you did, you'd realise environment provides the foundation for your character...and this obviously applies to everyone else.
Look at all the absolute fuck-ups you know - there's always a cause stretching way back to childhood.
which is what leads me to ask; why do they need to lock ambulance doors to protect themselves from people who want treatment?
Who said it was acceptable? Attacking paramedics obviously isn't acceptable - but that doesn't mean to say you can't look at social environment and recognise it as the root problem. Blaming people as "bad" individuals and calling for tougher action is short-sighted and fails utterly to address the problem.
I could be wrong.
It's also worth remembering that people change their minds...
So how do you reinforce that message?
I didn't call for tougher action.
You can't re-inforce it - any attempt would just fall on deaf ears. changing society and people's environment is the solution, and that's the solution to more than this problem. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening.
which brings me back to my origional question of; why not just strap them down instead of locking the door? Even if they do change their minds, at least they can have treatment up untill that point
it's from Shakspears, Henry VI
I've been out on the ambulances before and haven't witnessed any hostility, but if there was any threat I would rather the crew had a stab vest and abandoned a violent patient on the street than put themselves at any risk.
Alcohol and social inequality are not valid reasons for violence against medics.