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Do drugs matter?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Does it matter that David Cameron may have used Class A drugs?

Considering the broader issue, do personal factors matter at all in respect of who we vote for?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They are only asking about cocaine because he has handled the cannabis allegation badly.

    He should have said right from the start, yes, I smoked pot a few times at uni, it wasnt for me, I havent touched it in 15 years.

    That way there would be no story to it at all, this way the story is him not answering.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Does it matter that David Cameron may have used Class A drugs?

    Considering the broader issue, do personal factors matter at all in respect of who we vote for?

    Yes and no, I think it depends on their political stance. You can't be denouncing drugs as ruining society whilst snorting cocaine, people won't stand for it. I think it comes down to the public's confidence that the politician isn't a complete hypocrit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Does it matter that David Cameron may have used Class A drugs?
    Not really, no.

    It would only matter if David Cameron were to suggest that anyone who have ever taken drugs should be punished by the law. But otherwise, it shouldn't matter one iota.

    The whole episode is one sad session of dirty tricks anyway.

    The Labour Party will not believe its luck.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think he handled the cannabis thing well - its nothing to do with his current position. If he still takes drugs - that becomes an issue, but if he dabbled in soft drugs close to twenty years ago I see it as no-one's business but his.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would it have been better if he had admitted he did it 15 years ago or whatever but then said he had learnt his lessons etc etc?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why should he? He wasn't in politics then and it makes no difference to what he does now. I tend to support his line that people deserve a life before they go into politics otherwise all you end up with are androids.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Would it have been better if he had admitted he did it 15 years ago or whatever but then said he had learnt his lessons etc etc?

    He cant say now, he has to stick to his refusal to answer, but when the first question came up he should have admited to using it a few times at uni (who hasnt?) and that would have been the end to it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The immense majority of the public doesn't appear to give a toss. Nor does the police.

    So he shouldn't say. Fuck the Daily Mail and any other newspaper that thinks they should have the ultimate say on what people do and say.

    It's not as if journalists have never touched the drug anyway... in fact they put rock stars and fashion models to shame :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    He wasn't in politics then and it makes no difference to what he does now.

    I disagree.

    His past experiences will make a difference to his policies now, although I suspect that the family heroin issue has had more impact and may have influenced his "rehab" position.

    Where I do agree is that it shouldn't be held against him. It doesn't undermine his position rather the contrary, he speaks from experience and from a position of strength of knowledge.

    I would actually be interested to find out what may have informed Davis' more draconian approach... is it informed or is it playing to the age-old politicians pissing contest style "who can appear tougher on crime" approach...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know Liam Fox suggests that his experience of seeing the damaging effects of drugs as a doctor would mean he would never support any legalisation............
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I disagree.

    His past experiences will make a difference to his policies now, although I suspect that the family heroin issue has had more impact and may have influenced his "rehab" position.

    Where I do agree is that it shouldn't be held against him. It doesn't undermine his position rather the contrary, he speaks from experience and from a position of strength of knowledge.

    I would actually be interested to find out what may have informed Davis' more draconian approach... is it informed or is it playing to the age-old politicians pissing contest style "who can appear tougher on crime" approach...

    And I disagree with your disagreement :razz:

    Whilst finding out what shaped his policies may be of interest, we do not need to know it. Just what his policies are now. We are all shaped by our past and have things which we did when we were young, feckless and stupid that we wouldn't do now.

    If he took cannabis when he was younger and now doesn't that should be the end of it. if he was a regular pot smoker now that would be a different matter.

    Seeing Cameron on question time I must admit to being impressed with how he handled it (and also with Ben Bradshaw decling to make cheap political shots).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also interesting to note that the other Tory candidates aren't making an issue of it

    (though Davis said he didn't think someone who had previously taken Class A drugs would be fit to lead the party when pressed on the issue)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Call my cynical but it wouldn't be surprising for the other candidates to say in public they support Cameron's refusal to come clean while instigating whispering campaigns and 'anonymous' comments to the press in private.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This moron should have had more sense not to do cocaine in the first place, and when questioned instead of blurting out rehearsed rhetoric come clean and said it was a mistake. Does he really think it was a mistake though? How 'liberal' is he really about drugs? Cocaine Cameron has been exposed as out of touch and supremely privileged, just like the rest of his liberal London friends.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We don't know whether he's taken drugs or not. He could also be refusing to answer because he's never touched an illegal substance in his life and is worried that he will seem out of touch (Eton, Oxbridge, MP and never touched drugs - does he know the issues which touch the mythical real person)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This moron should have had more sense not to do cocaine in the first place, and when questioned instead of blurting out rehearsed rhetoric come clean and said it was a mistake. Does he really think it was a mistake though? How 'liberal' is he really about drugs? Cocaine Cameron has been exposed as out of touch and supremely privileged, just like the rest of his liberal London friends.

    He's actually got one of the most intelligent and well thought out positions on drugs of anyone in politics today, if you were bothered enough to look into it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Completely agree that he has dug himself a rather large hole by avoiding the cannabis question for so long but to be honest, like me, he went to public school and I knew about 10 people max who, in a year of 120/130 had not tried pot by the time they had left and those 10 or so probably have done since being at uni.

    I think he was stupid to avoid it for so long when he should probably have realised that most people would have assumed he had done it because he had been to an affluent public school and then Oxford. Now there's a drugs hotbed...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    I know Liam Fox suggests that his experience of seeing the damaging effects of drugs as a doctor would mean he would never support any legalisation............

    Which shows he's a complete buffoon - treating drug addiction and the associated problems could be far more successfully approached if policy was radically liberalised.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe so, but I think you would be wrong to dismiss the idea so quickly as I beleive it is one held by many people.......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This moron should have had more sense not to do cocaine in the first place, and when questioned instead of blurting out rehearsed rhetoric come clean and said it was a mistake.

    Do you have anything to substantiate the allegation I think you're making - that Cameron took Cocaine?

    Have I missed an admission?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Whilst finding out what shaped his policies may be of interest, we do not need to know it. Just what his policies are now. We are all shaped by our past and have things which we did when we were young, feckless and stupid that we wouldn't do now.

    I still disagree :p

    Knowing why a politician takes a viewpoint is important to understanding their viewpoint. Particularly on such an important issue as this.

    Like I said before, I personally believe that if is views are the result of personaly experience, this can only be to his benefit. It's gives strength to his stance. We know that it isn't just rhetoric for once.

    For example, I'm much more likely to listen to the opinion of a former homeless person on the subject of homelessness than I am to Prince Charles' opinion. Not because his opinion isn't valid but because experience of an issue brings a different perspective than an external view.
    if he was a regular pot smoker now that would be a different matter

    I agree with this part because it then goes to his ability to do the job, a different matter entirely.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Maybe so, but I think you would be wrong to dismiss the idea so quickly as I beleive it is one held by many people.......

    Their arguments don't stand up to scrutiny - their position is largely based on ignorance and false morality.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do not think that it is unreasonable to say that drug law liberalisatoio could well lead to an increase in the number of drug related casualties.....

    But that is a different debate.......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    His past experiences will make a difference to his policies now, although I suspect that the family heroin issue has had more impact and may have influenced his "rehab" position.
    I agree with this. Personal experience will inevitably influence somebody's politics.

    But he is setting an important precedent by refusing to answer the nosey, irrelevant questions of the gutter press.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This moron should have had more sense not to do cocaine in the first place, and when questioned instead of blurting out rehearsed rhetoric come clean and said it was a mistake. Does he really think it was a mistake though? How 'liberal' is he really about drugs? Cocaine Cameron has been exposed as out of touch and supremely privileged, just like the rest of his liberal London friends.

    Does anyone else picture BS frothing at the mouth when posting on here?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Does anyone else picture BS frothing at the mouth when posting on here?
    No, but I picture you in a small chaotic home office with floor-to-ceiling bookshelves and bits of paper scattered across the cramped desk. :chin: And a cup of tea by your side. :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not too far from the truth actually - I just made myself a cuppa :o
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Knowing why a politician takes a viewpoint is important to understanding their viewpoint. Particularly on such an important issue as this.
    .

    I'm not sure it is. And even if it is true its a bit of leap to suggest that because he had some dope when he was at University this is the only eason he's relatively liberal on drug laws.
    For example, I'm much more likely to listen to the opinion of a former homeless person on the subject of homelessness than I am to Prince Charles' opinion. Not because his opinion isn't valid but because experience of an issue brings a different perspective than an external view

    Well the homeless person might be able to give a better view of what its like to be homeless, but they aren't likely to be able to neccessarily give better views on what should be done to stop it. I have probably a more informed viewpoint than Blair of what it was like in Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s when the IRA were busily gunning down anyone who stood against their 'vision', which probably would make be a very bad person to negotiate the Good Friday agreement. Having experience can be useful, but it sometimes make you too close to the problem.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Considering the broader issue, do personal factors matter at all in respect of who we vote for?
    all the way!

    when we loose that bit ...we;ve lost all the bits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe he hasn't ever tried drugs and just wants to make a point of not involving his personal life in politics. I don't think that would ever work though, a politician is still a human being and people are going to want to know about his personal life.
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