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Happy Birthday Maggie!

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it's hard to explain but people ...millions of people were actualy living in fear.
    living in fear of your own rulers is not healthy.
    this wasn't your usual anger or frustration at government ...this was fear for many people for many different reasons. fear of her government and its cruel selfish policies.
    more than anything ...fear and hatred of her.
    she was and remains the most hated PM of this country ever if i remember rightly.

    I dont think she was that feared and hated,,

    I hate Tony much more,
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've only got time to make one posting today and it has to be to wish Margaret Thatcher, Britains Greatest Prime Minister since Winston Churchill, a very happy 80th birthday. Long may she live, she did so much good for this country, its a pity that the political pygmies that followed her could maintain her high standards.

    Thank you Maggie for breaking the tryanny of the bully-boy unions, giving Council tenants the chance to own their own homes, and turning sclerotic Soviet-style state industries over to private enterprise.

    You energised and liberated people who had been demoralised by years of socialist incompetence culminating in the Winter of Discontent (1979), when the dead remained unburied, bins were left unemptied with rats and rubbish filling the streets, and the public sector was continually on strike.

    Thank you for saving us Maggie. God bless you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote:
    This is for 1997, at the end of tory rule. It shows the bottom 10-50% of the population's wages growing at a faster rate than the top 50-90%. Yes, the top 10% are benefitting immensly, as they inevitably do but it shows policies started by thatcher and carried on have had a positive effect on people's incomes as a whole.
    Nice spin there. Do you work in politics?

    During Thatcher's reign, and even a few years after she left, things were pretty grim for the working and actually much of the middle classes.

    Only a full 5 years after the wicked witch's departure things became to improve. A hell of a difference from the scene of economic 'legacy' you appear to be painting.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Yes, but the alternatives were even worse. And by defending the Falklands she directly led to the overhtrow of Galteri (who was a lot nastier than Pinochet).

    Given Pinochet was one of the few dictators who have voluntarily given up power (rather than fleeing to France with billions of punds in a Swiss bank account) he actually seems to have been one of the better ones* (certainly better than the rather charming Honecker who had people murdered because they wanted to move to a different country and some of his equally charming fellow communist dictators). And he was certainly better than the neo-fascist he overthrew http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/12/wallen12.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/05/12/ixportal.html



    * though that's relative.
    Excuse me? If nothing else Allende was the democratically elected leader of Chile. His only crime was to be left of centre and to refuse to dance to the tune of the US government. Pardon me for taking that book with a pinch of salt... And even if every last allegation were true, Allende would still be a trillion times better than the fascist butcher who murdered him and took power.

    The catalogue of atrocities Pinochet perpetrated on his own people cannot be underestimated. Thousands killed, tens of thousands tortured in ways that would make the Nazis blush, women raped by especially trained dogs... Pinochet is one of the most repulsive and plain evil cunts in the history of mankind. The only reason he won't go down in history in the infamy he deserves is because the US saw him as an ally, and because he 'only' murdered several thousands and tortured several tens of thousands of his own people. So in the deluded eyes of some, he's just some ''minor, a-tad-naughty right wing dictator". But in the scale of nastiness, evilness and brutality, the soon-to-be-dead mass murderer ranks alongside the very best.

    What a mockery he makes of our alleged love for democracy and our 'good will' to help others.

    And this is the kind of monster Thatcher willingly went to bed with, not only during his regime when at least some could argue (wrongly) that you have to play realpolitk sometimes, but many years afterwards when she helped the now out of power disgusting tyrant avoid justice.

    I can only hope there is a Hell after all, for there must be a special place being prepared for the arrival of the two great buddies.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True Blue wrote:
    I've only got time to make one posting today and it has to be to wish Margaret Thatcher, Britains Greatest Prime Minister since Winston Churchill, a very happy 80th birthday. Long may she live, she did so much good for this country, its a pity that the political pygmies that followed her could maintain her high standards.

    Thank you Maggie.
    Oh look... they haven't spotted you yet. Lucky... :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    During Thatcher's reign, and even a few years after she left, things were pretty grim for the working and actually much of the middle classes.

    But not as grim as during Callaghan's reign, where "taxingf the rich till the pips squeaked" meant taxing the fuck out of everyone.

    I guess it depends on what you consider better, and what you consider worse. I think that not having bodies rotting in the streets, having full electrical supply and not freezing to death is progress, and you obviously don't.

    It's important to put Thatcher into context, really. She was not ideal, but she was a million times better than what went before.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    She didn't need to go to the other extreme did she?

    In any case, like I said earlier (and I'm not comparing the two, before anyone suggests it), Hitler revitalised Germany but he is still remembered in the infamy he deserves. There is more in life than alleged economic prosperity. I can't ignore the woman's willing association with repugnant racists, fascists and murderers- and nor should anyone else.

    I actually meant to ask Disillusioned yesterday but I forgot. I believe he is gay isn't it? He appeared to be defending her record in office yesterday. As far as I'm concerned any gay person or even any person sympathetic towards gay rights should be repulsed by the introduction of the infamous Section 28 Thatcher oversaw.

    There is no end to the wickedness and nastiness of the woman.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I bet world poverty is her fault aswell. I guess it's true what they say, some people DO blame everything on Thatcher.
    Close... World poverty is the fault o the west.

    How do you guys think she was better than any other Prime Minister?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    There is no end to the wickedness and nastiness of the woman.

    Well you say that about Clause 28 - and as a gay man I agree with you over it ... but "no end to the wickedness and nastiness of the woman"?

    If the British public did not vote her out, surely that makes us all complicitous?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To a degree... Then again voters tend to look at home issues first. And the full scale of the damage often takes years to become apparent.

    Her supporting of Pinochet a few years ago happened well after she had been ousted so voters cannot be blamed for it.

    She only has the Falklands to thank for one of her election successes anyway.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the British public did not vote her out, surely that makes us all complicitous?

    Which is why it's important to remove yourself as much as possible from being "british" and never ever vote unless it's in extreme circumstances - i.e. self defensive voting.

    Also that depends on a belief in democracy, which I don't share even slightly. Democracy is bullshit, it's 9 wolves and a lamb discussing what's for dinner.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Um ... ok .. but I still think your descripton of her is somewhat extreme ... what are we comparing her "wickedness" and "evil" to then exactly ... ? Adolf Hitler? Saddam Hussein? The Soham murderer?

    I think its too easy to get carried away by the vitriol .. it almost seems that you still have a chip on your shoulder because she may have stopped some of your benefits. She did bring the country out of a very dark period but, rightly or wrongly, it was the voter that left her there for that length of time ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually I wasn't even in the country... my profound dislike of her arises mostly from her associations and friendship with a brutal monster as well as her and her husband's easy ride given to the Apartheid regime.

    She also comes across as an ultra right wing, greedy, completely uncaring, homophobic, money-obsessed, single mother-persecuting little bigot.

    I mean, what's to like about the woman? :confused:

    She might not be as 'evil' as Hitler and Hussein of course... but she's still one of the nastiest and most unpleasant politicians in the history of this country.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Actually I wasn't even in the country... my profound dislike of her arises mostly from her associations and friendship with a brutal monster as well as her and her husband's easy ride given to the Apartheid regime.
    She also comes across as an ultra right wing, greedy, completely uncaring, homophobic, money-obsessed, single mother-persecuting little bigot.
    She might not be as 'evil' as Hitler and Hussein of course... but she's still one of the nastiest and most unpleasant politicians in the history of this country.
    I take it you don't like Britain's Greatest Prime Minister since Churchill then Aladdin? Your own bigotry & prejuidice is awesome!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But you don't heap the same abuse on Tony Blair who made best friends with with the Chimps, invades countries without UN authorisation, uses his position to buy flats in Bristol, allows Mugabe to get away with murder etc etc ... he's not that much better ....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree... I've called him a c*** many times already... enough people up and down the country seem to have the same contempt for him as others do for Thatcher. Give it time...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who do you like Aladdin? Who is good enough, ideologically-pure enough, perfect enough, to fit the bill?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nobody is perfect.

    However there are countless people out there who should be decent enough not to go to bed with brutal monsters or to hate and persecute entire groups.

    Most other politicians from all the main parties actually would fit that profile- even if we don't agree with their policies.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin, would the likes of Dr Singh (India), Pervez Musharraf (Pakistan), John Howard (Australia), or Putin (Russia), fit your approval list?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OMG M4gg13, 1 l0v3 h3r b0n35!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True Blue wrote:
    I take it you don't like Britain's Greatest Prime Minister since Churchill

    Yes, gassing the Kurds was such a great thing to do.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True Blue wrote:
    Aladdin, would the likes of Dr Singh (India), Pervez Musharraf (Pakistan), John Howard (Australia), or Putin (Russia), fit your approval list?
    Maybe, no, no, no. And your point is?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Maybe, no, no, no...

    Joseph Stalin?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LOL... :rolleyes:

    no.

    You wouldn't be comparing Stalin to Maggie, right? Despise her as we all do, she didn't kill millions of people. :D
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    True Blue wrote:
    Aladdin, would the likes of Dr Singh (India), Pervez Musharraf (Pakistan), John Howard (Australia), or Putin (Russia), fit your approval list?

    They are ALL great. Possibly. Actually not. Only thing PUtin ever did was bomb the fuck out the Chechens... how do you spell that sorry? It is like that isn't it?

    Putin is about as useful as Maggie. Rich get richer under him, poor get poorer.

    Stalin and Maggie? No, Stalin built up the Industry... Maggie killed it. Both won a war, mind. Maggie didn't kill all her opponents though, but she was pro-democracy, so it'd be a bit off if she did. :rolleyes: Oh, and one had a cool 'tache.

    Only thing I could possibly say in defence of Maggie was she DID want to Finish Saddam in the first gulf war... should have done it then.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote:
    fdaggfd.jpg

    Which would you rather have, 3% of £20k or 2.8% of £90k?

    Do the figures then tell me who is better off from that change...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As fopr Thatcher, she was a great Prime Minister. She lead the country.

    I didn't like the direction she lead us in, but you cannot deny that she was a true leader.

    As for Slippy's usual illinformed comments, sadly I didn't get to vote against her, I was "only" seventeen when she stood for election for the last time. I did get to vote against the party she was leading a couple of times though. Does that mean I can criticise her?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin, would any of the following make your approved list?

    Hosni Mubarak - Egypt
    Ali Khamenei - Iran
    Bashir Al-Assad - Syria
    Robert Muagbe - Zimbabwe
    Yoweri Museveni - Uganda
    Thabo Mbeki - South Africa
    Paul Kagame - Rwanda
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sure it's none of them, can you say the same?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My word - someone make TB/RK a presidential adviser!

    Still, you are missing GWB in your list of cuddly killers there buddy. In fact you could add every "leader", because they all murder people, one way or another.
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