Life without parole, for children

Former Member

Traditional;ly outlaws were those who took no protection from the law and so got none of it's benefits. Making all children outlaws doesn't seem to be a very good idea though.

Why should you abide by the rules of a society if that society does not give you a voice in it?

Yes, this is more about the state though. The legal agreement needed for the existence of a state isn't being followed through on by one party, so why should the other be bound by it?

A "state" is a group of individuals who owe allegience in exchange for protection and/or benefits. If they aren't getting benefits or protection, why should they be bound by full obligation?

the choice to vote or not is just as important as whom you vote for

Bunnies. It'a false choice, a double bind, a cypher. You can be ruled by tyrant A or tyrant B - you are free people because you get to choose your tyrant.

Former Member

A 15 year old is still a child though...

Former Member

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/13102005/344/early-release-tagging-idea.html

interesting news

Former Member

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

A 15 year old is still a child though...

If they rape someone or murder someone with premeditation then they should never be released. When they rape or murder someone they forfeit their right to have a life of freedom.

I don't have any sympathy with those who are inside without parole for pre-meditated murder or rape, because they deserve it.

Former Member

Unless for truely horrific and serial offenders I can not understand a punishment of upwards of 60 years in jail, it seems intollerably cruel.

I understand of course the effect that rape and murder has on people and that punishment should indeed be given.

I guess I come at it from another angle, I know someone who was given a very long sentance because the judge was 'setting an example' and it seems such a waste. People do change.

Former Member

For nearly everything I think that offenders should be given a second chance, and that people do change.

I don't think those who murder or rape, or attempt to, with pre-meditation should ever be given the chance to change. Yeah, locking them up may well be cruel, but they deserve it.

That animal that subjected the teacher to a horrific rape should never be allowed free. Rapists should not be treated as people, because they are not.

Former Member

Kermit wrote:

Rapists should not be treated as people, because they are not.

That is a very dangerous attitude for the criminal justice system to take regarding anyone in their care.

Former Member

Kermit wrote:

A lot do.

And it is their right to a democratic protest vote if they so wish. It's not as if its just the young who use protest votes.

If you pay tax you should be given a right to vote. And as even the smallest child pays tax, they should be given the right to vote.

In a democratic society you give everyone a voice, or you don't bother.

Personally I think stupid people should be banned from voting, but that isn't really compatible with democracy.

And if you don't pay tax do you loose your right to vote?

Former Member

And if you don't pay tax do you loose your right to vote?

If you don't then that can't be what your taxes are for.

I have been around this particular mulberry bush many many times so I'll say no more.

Former Member

klintock wrote:

If you don't then that can't be what your taxes are for.

Well we possibly agree, because you don't pay your taxes in return for the right to vote. 'Property' qualifications were done away with years ago.

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

we're not saying dont punish them, just dont do it on the full wrath due to reasons stated before

No, you said that people under 18 years of age are "unable to be fully accountable". What do you mean by this? That they are not capable of committing crime because they have not voted for the law-makers?

Former Member

Disillusioned wrote:

I tend to agree.

I think even at 10 years old someone knows if they're doing something wrong.

Okay - so you'd be in favour of giving 10 year olds access to pornography, alcohol and the right to enter in consensual sex with whomsoever they please. The right to leave school, get a job and willingly enter into legally binding contracts.

Right?

What about you Kentish - you can't see why people capable of committing a crime shouldn't be treated like adults - so, you must favour treating kids as equals in all spheres of life. That'd be a consistent and coherent position, would it not?

Former Member

Kermit wrote:

Rapists should not be treated as people, because they are not.

Errr...they are people. Like it or not. People are capable of some nasty things - to deny that people are capable of such nastiness gets us nowhere.

Former Member

freethepeeps wrote:

What about you Kentish - you can't see why people capable of committing a crime shouldn't be treated like adults - so, you must favour treating kids as equals in all spheres of life. That'd be a consistent and coherent position, would it not?

I went for the view that people don't become adults at midnight on their 18th birthday. That's not quite what you're suggesting is it?

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

I went for the view that people don't become adults at midnight on their 18th birthday. That's not quite what you're suggesting is it?

Nope - it isn't what I'm suggesting at all.

Former Member

NQA wrote:

And if you don't pay tax do you loose your right to vote?

Show me a single person that pays no tax and then we can talk