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Also as a democracy (however flawed) and one which protects free-speech they are better at discussing ideas and solutions to problems that closed one-party states where disagreement with the ruling elite may lead to a quick trip to one of the less scenic parts of the country. If China has a flaw which will stop in become a true superpower its group think and the fact that Chinasilences critics of the regime, where if it listened to them and adapted it could evolve.
Won't happen in a communist state, but it never stopped USSR becoming a superpower, and the USSR's population and economic potential was miniscule compared to China's today. I wouldn't be surprised in the next few years to see a substantial improvement in their military. I also read an article in Times magazine that said they are going to cut troop numbers and with the rest of the money focus on artiliary and the likes
No amount of armed forces can make up for a crippled economy.
Even the US owns up to this. When they saw the Flanker first perform at an airshow, a US Airforce spokesman said something to the effect of (Can't remember his exact words): "We are only hoping our next generation fighter can do that."
And, with the next generation Sukhoi underway already and promising to completley eclipse everything else... I mean, it will basically be a combination of the Su-37 and Legendary S-37... I want one. Infact, the Raptor would probably have a hard time even defeating a current flanker.
US Tanks? Give me a break. Over rated. Abrams is good. Just a shame they sold them to Iran now, isn't it? Iran who have defeating this apparently "mighty" American force one already. Not to mention the Vietnamese did it. Oh, and Insurgents who are shitely armed and trained taking out Abrams too. RPG7 is God. Combat between nearly all modern tanks is "who hits first, wins." T-90, Abrams, Challenger 2, Type 98. First one to hit the other can kill it.
Oh, and I'd like to see the US Navy go up against the Worlds Larget Airforce. With the latest Russian Anti-ship missiles (Regarded as some of the best ever, one has the capability to take out an aircraft carrier).
As for what China has, I feel like Enlightening Matadore if he wants a look at some of the REAL armoury of China. Not what he like to think, such as old Soviet crap. That's only their submarines.
Type 98 MBT
Type 95 Assault Rifle
Su-30 MK
Last one Accompanied by some Su-27's, J-10's, and J-11's. A few J-8's and J-7's probably still lurknig about there too.
But you're concentrating on the technology (and over-estimating it -no weapon works as well on the battlefield as the show-room). The Russian Army is, to be blunt, crap. There's an excellent book ' A small victorious war' which gives one of the best accounts I've read of the Russians in the first Chechen war. It shows that this is an army with poor morale, corrupt or incompetent leadership and with a poor grasp of modern warfare (ie don't send tanks into narrow streets unsupported by infantry).
And there's no sign the Russians have improved.
But im talking about China here. Not Russia. Russia doesn't get attacked 'cos it has loads of nukes. Putin also leveled Checnya now, I don't think one building there is in one piece anymore. Great soviet-style diplomacy there.
But China? They have the money. They have the brainwashed troops. They have the training and present a fairly formidable defensive force currently. (No naval power ot make them Offensive yet). America has experience yes. But we have seen before they fail to use this, ever, and make the same old mistakes. Plus their training *isn't* that good. They do have the worst friendly fire rate in Iraq, 1 and 2. And Afghanistahn. More British troops have actually been killed by Americans than by Iraqi's. This is a bloody disgrace, why do we help them?
To be fair there's really only two players in Iraq - us and the Yanks and obviously we're better
whilst it may be fun to take the mick out of the US army and suggest they're all a bunch of fat gun-toting cowboys with the military skills of a six year old - the truth is far from that. They are mainly well led, trained and motivated. There war fighting doctrine is excellent (though there peace-keeping and counter-insurgency is less so). The invasion of Iraq will be studied for years as a brilliant military option - the Iraqis were totally wrong footed and unable to put up any coherent defence. The fact that they then face resistance from die-hards shouldn't detract from that.
Certainly not the Russians or the Chinese - if you think the Americans take a robust line in dealing with insurgents look at the Chinese in Tibet or the Russians in Chechyna or Afghanistan.
Obviously you've failed to notice just how systematically the ruling PNAC cabal of rabid ideologues in Washington have been emulating that practice to a T.
New rule of US governance: Damn the accountability and pass the secrecy, stonewalling of investigations and ample doses of character smears toward any who attempt to expose the rampant corruption and lies.
Sorry to burst your illusions of US grandeur NQA, but my nation is rotting from its own smug imperial hubris at an increasing pace whilst China is busy buying up industries and technology the world over.
Anyone who imagines them dependant on 1950's style heavy industry hasn't done much homework.
Yeah, Putin didn't give a shit what anyone though. He fucked the Chechens over one. Militants are a problem that won't go away though. There is no way to stop it. Afghanistahn doesn't count, because hte Americans equiped and trained the Taliban at that time. (Bet you regret it now, see, the Russians were right... there would have been no bloody Bin Laden or WTC if they had let the Russians do it.).
The Invasion of Iraq was good? Half of them didn't even fight. That was hardly a challenge, they had little left after we clobbered them in the First Gulf War. The Invasion of North Korea (Where we should have gone instead of Iraq.) Would prove what the US and the UK are really made of (We'd still hamer them, mind.)
I think that if hte US and China went to battle now, it would end in stalemate. It's likley to happen over Taiwan if anything, but the US can't even fix Iraq and Afghanistahn right now. They are also in Megadebt, so can hardly afford to do anything or have the resources to do anything. And look what happened last time they fought the Chinese... One ended in an unoficial stalemate, the other they lost.
Pissed?
Too many Rambo films obviously. :rolleyes:
I really don't think the US Army could take on an army of potentially hundreds of millions though. The Americans are scared to go in anywhere tough anyway, hence the picking on smaller targets such as Afghanistan and Iraq.
And if they CAN destory any other Army on earth, wouldn't they ahve done it by now? If they really were as powerful as they, and you, like to beleive, they would dominate the world. Which, they don't.
Besides, Mass can defeat Tech. 20 Million is the size of hte chinese army. They have the capability to roll out more tanks faster than anyone. And Arms. Infact, they are a majour exporter of Arms to the US! They make money off Americans buying their guns. Cunning... and of course, what would the US do if China stopped exporting produce to it? Oh, dear...
China has cunningly out-done America at its own game, that of Captialism.
Yep - that's my point. With your Command, Communications and Control gone - there's no real point. They either surrendered or melted away. Which is a better victory than you classic battle of attrittion (at leasts its better for the poor bloody infantry on the grounds - ours and theirs.)
I wouldn't be so sure.
The fact that America has deliberately fostered close economic realtions with China now means that if the two were to go to war it is the Chinese who would suffer massively as the funds from their exports to the US were cut off as well as the masses of foreign investment.
This measn a war on Taiwan is not viable due to US economic retaliation.
Are you sure it is not the Americans who have been the cunning ones?
NQA, I see your point. But that doesn't get rid of the fact the REAL threats to the West have been left alone, making us still vunerable to them. Iraq was as dangerous to the western world as I am to the UK governemnt. Pointless waste of resources. North Korea would, despite hte brainwashed troops, have been easy. The Armed Forces have'nt really been updated since the war out there. We're talking T-34's and T-55's... and a bunch of proley trained men with AK-47's and SKS's. And I think the people would be happy to be liberated there.