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What a wonderful recruitment agent Israel will become for the likes of Al Qaida if they actually attack Iran. And so will the West, by its assured failure to do as much as giving Israel a slap in the wrist for it.
Incidentally there have been many Israeli government members, past and present, who have publicly called for all Arabs to be kicked out of "Greater Israel". But just like the talk from the odd mad mullah from Iran, or even the manifesto from Hamas (which has repeatedly indicated it's prepared to reach a permanent peace deal with Israel, but all of this gets ignored as people refer to its charter as 'proof' that they want the destruction of Israel), it's all bollocks, bravado and internal politics.
You could also argue that if Israel remains the only nuclear power in the region one day it might decide 'to hell with this lot' and nuke Iran or other country in the region to hell. Something which would be avoided if there was a M.A.D. situation in place. Are we prepared to risk the lives of millions of Arabs/Persians by allowing Israel to illegally bomb Iran and prevent it from bringing a bit of balance in the region?
Since no one knows the answer to any of these questions, the best form of action would be to oppose Iran's nuclear aims by peaceful aims only (sanctions if it continues with it, rewards if it quits its programme). And if Iran does carry on, well it's not ideal but no country in the world has any authority, legal or especially moral, to use force to stop them.
I think that's the core of our disagreements - you are arguing from a legal/moral point of view (not that these two things are the same). I'm arguing from realpolitik - it may not be either legal or moral for Israel to stop Iran having nukes - but it still remains the best course.
That’s what it comes down to. Iran’s extremely hateful rhetoric directed towards Israel means that nobody can 100% rule out the Iranians using nuclear weapons against the Israelis.
Were Iran to ever use nuclear weapons as you say it would leave millions dead. It’s an undisputable fact that the entire world will be a far more dangerous place with Iran possessing nuclear weapons.
I don’t think anyone could possibly blame the Israelis if they were to destroy Iran’s nuclear capabilities should diplomatic means through the EU and UN fail. They would merely be acting in self-defence.
If I lived in Israel I think I would be very frightened if a country that had repeatedly called for the destruction of the country I lived in had nuclear weapons.
It's disappointing that Aladdin seems unable to see any of this.
Either "Iran" or "Israel", doesn't really matter which. It will "save lives in the long run" or can be "justified on the information we have".
It's a "matter of time" until one side bombs the other so lets get on with it. Oh and until the "top guy says so" they "will never surrender". As the top guy is God and doesn't exist we may have a wait on our hands.
Oh and it will be "eventually good for the region" economically too.
It's cos i convinced her that countries don't exist.
Even though they have been pushed back on previous occasions?
So, give a nation the ability to strike with nukes instead...
Are you?
Like I said, who would Iran nuke? Who could they reach? You've already sais that any strike on Israel would result in the destruction of Iran, so why would they use it - especially when you consider that conventional warfare offers them the best option. They only have to look at Iraq to show that...
Don't you think that it's a little ironic that the political wing which in the 80s argued for less nukes, will now argue for more
What I can see is the difference between empty threats or even wishful thinking, and real life.
Iran would NEVER nuke Israel, no matter how much it hates it, simply because it would mean its own total destruction. Of that there can be no doubt- how could it be otherwise?
In this crazy world of ours, M.A.D. actually bring a lot of stability in many situations. I think the consequences of Israel unilaterally attacking Iran's nuclear installations greatly outweigh the real life actual danger from Iran ever using nukes.
Iran getting nuclear weapons however is something that can be stopped. I do hope you’re right, I do hope that they would never use them if they had them but if I lived in Israel I wouldn’t be willing to take that risk. And I’m sure if you’re completely honest you wouldn’t be either.
Why were Israel allowed the weapons in the first, why weren't they stopped? or is it only American allies who are allowed them?
click
nothing has changed throughout history ...the nation with the biggest wallet and weaponry ...calls the shots ...why are you surprised?
Like China and Russia you mean?
God, I wouldn't mind seeing Sharon's face when the Chinese came in. That'd shut that murdering bastard up.
Um, Irsrael surley isn't stupid enoguh to bomb Iran. I'd be suicide. Look at what Iran did to the US army, for fucks sake. The Israeli's are many things, but they certainly are not stupid. And if China is on Iran's side... its logic to leave Iran alone.
America likes to stop anyone it dislikes having Nukes. North Korea, despite its people starving, decided to get some so the US will not invade it. Russia has more than the US, but little in the way of an effective army now, so everyone pretty much ignores it. China is the second largest player and has plenty of nukes. Israel hopefully won't attack Iran before it gets some.
Muhahahah.
And how much opposition have they faced...Jesus there was a 50 year cold way of the whole situation of Russia or USSR having them...it always seems ok for America and it's allies to have them because they're the good guys and the rest are obviously so evil they plan to destroy the world :rolleyes:
Oh and Mats pissed again...try writing in English next time!
Iran would have to face the US military if it attacked Israel.
America is tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nuclear weapons or not it’s very unlikely that they’d touch Iran or North Korea. Things aren’t going too great in Iraq and support in America for the Iraq war is in decline. It's just not going to happen.
But hey you hate America, America is evil and every American is a warmongering redneck cowboy so why let facts get in the way?
Anyway you’re just about the stupidest person here if you want Iran to get nuclear weapons. It’s undisputable fact that Iran with nuclear weapons only increases the chances of a nuclear holocaust.
Iran has publicly and repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel calling for it to burn. Its leaders are religious fanatics. The world will be a more dangerous place if Iran gets nuclear weapons. Say the Iranians did nuke Israel, the Israelis nuked back – we could be talking about millions of dead Iranians and dead Israelis. It’s unlikely but it’s a possibility if Iran get nuclear weapons. Destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities would not be suicide but taking that risk could be.
I think if the Iraq war was a tester for America's foreign policy, if it went welll then there would be no stopping it, i think this time people looked past some of the more obvious reasons of going to war and looking at more sinister reasons
I don't think anyone here hates America, i have relatives in America, i don't think they're rednekcs, (just most of them, ha joke) Most people don't like the way it's run and how it decides it has a say i all our affairs, when even you will admit it has no right whatsoever in our affairs
Ok, so you agree that every country should decommission it's nuclear stockpile, if only to destroy the chance of nuclear holocaust
I don't think Iran is really that bad in terms of fanaticism, it's women have quite a lot of freedom, certainly compared to places like Saudi Arabia
Iran's already kicked the US military once, ffs. Why wouldn't they do it again? Not to mention China getting involved... hahaha.
Iran has nukes, they they get left alone. Iraq didn't and it got owned. Why does Iran not have a right to defend itself? I recognise America's right to defend itself against hte Taliban etc, I don't mind the incasion of afghanistan, I see the problem there. But Iraq? Come off it, you don't beleive Iraq was a threat? Or funded terrorism? Saddam hated the terrorists, they stood against him too, you know.
Iran isn;t stupid enough to start a nuclear war. Kim Jon Il, however... that is the guy the US should be sorting out. But they might have a force which could oppose the US. Even if it IS T-34's and Katyusha's. :rolleyes: Come on, you can hardly say the US had a reason to go into Iraq when North Korea is hte most obvious threat to world peace about. Iran isn't. While my signature says alot about the Iranian Attitude, I doubt they would start a war anytime soon. Their forces are currently pretty much defensive only in ability, especially against someone so wel armed as Israel. (Who, incidently, sell the details of that nice new American technology to China. Loyalty or what?)
Believe it.
Then again, not much can. Only a nuke could do that one... And then who would make all your cheap produce you keep buying? China has gotten too powerful now.
A problem in this day and age is that a state feels that a nuclear weapon is the only sure way of protecting their sovereignty from aggression.
The problems of the Middle East will not be solved if Israel were to bomb Iran to try and protect its monopoly of nukes it would like people have said on this board make the situation a lot worse. If stability is to be bought to the area a compromise must be made and it takes two to tango from my impression both sides need to have a look at themselves and question whether they want peace or conflict.
Yeah, it could.
Just as it has happened in Iraq.
And, just like Iraq is fast becoming another Vietnam, and the US is all but guaranteed to ultimately lose the war just like in Nam, I suspect the very same would occur in Iran.
Bombing buildings from the safety of a B52 is one thing. Controlling the ground is another, as the Americans appear to be finding out time after time after time.
But no matter. We have already handed out the most secular Arab nation to Islamic fundamentalists (see the provisions against women right's in the new "democratic" constitution- Iraqi women must be wondering why they lost thier rights and freedoms since the "liberation"), so we might as well continue to assist them to take full control of the Middle East.
I stand corrected.... 2nd biggest :thumb: