ideal political system?

Former Member

TheShyBoyInTheCorner wrote:

The government. Thing is, everyone knows manual labour is crap work and crap pay, that's one of the reasons there is a motivation to do better jobs which are more important to our economy. (i.e. services)

So you blame the government for providing a basic level of benefits (have you tried living on it?) rather than employers who pay shit wages but make shed loads of money in profit? How odd.

I work with people in recovery from drugs and/or alcohol problems. They're all on benefits, they all want to get back into education/training and eventually work. Some of them are literally trapped on benefits. Their rent is £150 - £200/week which the social pays at the moment (going rate in London for 1 bedroom flats - they were placed in these flats by social services). Now they are going to have to get into good jobs to cover their rent, I'd struggle to pay that amount of rent and I'm in paid employment! Who do you blame - the benefits service or greedy landlords and greedy employers?

Former Member

turlough wrote:

you can't get evidence, there are no surveys for it but it's self evident, people are greedy, people like goods, people are used to the idea of money, people want more money, just look around you

Maybe you're putting the cart before the horse? Are people "naturally" greedy? Or does people's behaviour reflect the social conditions they find themselves in?

Former Member

Kermit wrote:

Well I can see people running marathons for charity, donating billions to the DEA, volunteering for St John's Ambulance, &c.

A whole section of YouthNetUK is dedicated to people doing things for kindness not money.

Kinda disproves the nature of greed, doesn't it?

yea there are some people like that, there are also rapists and murderers out there, does that disprove the nature of kindness?

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

Maybe you're putting the cart before the horse? Are people "naturally" greedy? Or does people's behaviour reflect the social conditions they find themselves in?

yea well i sort of implied it's because of the social conditions they're in, i also said i don't see an end to these conditions, in the near future anyway

Former Member

Teh_Gerbil wrote:

Cuba is a rather well-run state at the moment, and the Wage was just recently raised, and they are streamlining and upgrading alot of stuff...

Cuba's a hopelessly run state. Last time I was there they had a complete drought on milk. Even pregnant mothers couldn't get hold of it (and I'm talking powdered milk here - might as well ask for a bar of gold as a pint of milk). And as for the cheese - 'anaemic' is the best way to describe it...I'm guessing it's being bulked up with something.

The black economy is probably bigger than the state. Taxi drivers earn more than heart surgeons and if anyone has a view of Cubans being idealistic and revolutionary still, I can tell you that they'll take dollars from you as happily and greedily as any westerner...and dollars are the only way that Cubans can make up their monthly food needs because the Cuban ration book doesn't begin to cover them.

The roads are falling apart. There's a shortage of practically everything you'd need to run industry.

In short, it's a basket-case.

Former Member

Oh yeah...best form of government? Benevolent dictatorship along the lines of Plato's Republic but without the social stratification (I'm working on an alternative).

Former Member

Ideal in what way? Equality or wealth? security or liberty? depending on what you want from Government depends on what you're going to regard as ideal

Former Member

TheShyBoyInTheCorner wrote:

The government. Thing is, everyone knows manual labour is crap work and crap pay, that's one of the reasons there is a motivation to do better jobs which are more important to our economy. (i.e. services)

i know plasterers brickies and plumbers earning not far short of a grand a week.
not bad aye?
car booters earning around eight hundred pounds a week.
if your willing to risk working for yourself and your good at it ...willing to graft ...good money can be made.
window cleaners in manchester go home with around four/five hundred quid ...so manual labour doesn't have to be about the minimum wage.

Former Member

NQA wrote:

Ideal in what way? Equality or wealth? security or liberty? depending on what you want from Government depends on what you're going to regard as ideal

Why frame the question like that? Why is it either equality or wealth? Security or liberty?

Former Member

A representative democracy...1 person...1 vote with lobby groups illegal.

Teh_Gerbil

Ideal? A complete brainwashed mass, who therefore don't know better than to do as told, and infact, don't know anything. Then they feel it is good, because they are told so.

It is the only way to please everyone, all the time.

See the flaw in politics now? People wanting different things. Oh dear.