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Disengagement
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Fully support it.
Though, I was wondering if anyone had links about how prepared the PA is to actually gain control over the infrastructure? Here I mostly think about providing work, which the workers usually come to Israel to do.
Though, I was wondering if anyone had links about how prepared the PA is to actually gain control over the infrastructure? Here I mostly think about providing work, which the workers usually come to Israel to do.
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At least don't blame me for breaking the civility here, as my question is pretty straight forward with no reason for anyone to start a WW3.
I agree though, a step in the right direction, is a step in the right direction...
That Israel is pulling out of Gaza is no doubt a good thing. So I do support such action.
However this must be followed in good time by a full withdrawal from the rest of Occupied Palestine (a.k.a. the West Bank). I must say at the moment I share the concerns of many observers that the pullout from Gaza is just a cynical 'compromise' ploy by Sharon to claim large chunks of the West Bank as Israeli territory for good.
Gaza can get on its feet. But that means full indepence from Israel, control over its borders, control over its airport and airspace, and full, safe passage to the rest of Palestine without humilliating and time-wasting Israeli checkout controls.
I believe I've been reasonable in my comments but I'd like to hear Wendy's thoughts about them.
For MoK's sake I won't comment on the points which may spark a discussion. But either way, relating to my original question, do you really think that there will be enough jobs to occupy the workers?
Oh and do you think that there will be a reduction in terrorist attacks from this?
After ther murder the other day, and after stopping an 18 year old boy heading towards Tel-Aviv with 10 kgs of "firework" (to put it mildly) on his back - No.
I hope so, though.
from the overview pdf linked to at the top of this page
Do you know within how long?
My guess, is that that won't happen .............
But yea, a step in the right direction
They weren't self-sufficient in the job department pre-intifada.
so? the economy isnt the beall and end all? why cant they rule themselves
imo israeli soldiers should pull out of west bank and gaza, settlements should no longer be built, and they work upon developing a autonomous region of israel eventually leading to a seperate state, with all citiziens having dual citizenship so they can pass freely
it would stop a lot of the problems, and kill almost all of the recruitment for hamas etc
The economy is be all and end all, when you stand with a working force in need of a job to provide basic food on the table.
Dual citizenship is not going to happen - fifth column and all.
Your last paragraph about Hamas recruitment, I have to say, seems like mere wishful thinking.
Remind us why that is
Because they were/are dependant of jobs in Israel.
Remind us why that is
No.
It'll just cause MoK a heart attack.
Seriously - there's no reason to get into it, as we in advance know that we disagree on why that is.
But, its central to the querstion you appear to be asking.
Was Gaza dependant on the Sate of Israel before 1948?
We should be told.
And no, Gaza wasn't dependant of Israel - natural enough, as Israel didn't exist pre-1948.
Its central because Israel has dominated Gaza for a very long time - Gaza is als filled with refugees from 1948 to whom Israel has a responsibility - and whilst it suited Israel to maintain Gaza as a reserve for cheap labour, it made sure that Gazans needed the jobs. Once the Intifada started Israel did eveything it could to dismantle what remained of the Gazan economy.
Either way, I am not giving in to your attempts of an unnecessary fight - I know your stance, you know mine, and frankly none of us are mature enough to discuss this issue with each other. So lets just leave it.
Basically I have gotten the answer to my question. The Palestinians are more or less fucked over with the disengagement - once the border to Israel is closed.
You would of course be assuming incorrectly.
Have a look at the Sinai - it seems to be in recovery.
Freedom of trade and movement with other neighbouring countries AND the West Bank would make Gaza a lot more sustainable.
I thought this forum was "politics and debate" rather than "I want to build up a theory which completely ignores political reality" ..........
Huzzah
You really are eager to start up a fight? When you can't provoke answers ouyt of me which will lead to a discussion, then you resort to demeaning me. Good one.
Makes me giggle, it really does.
Israel doesn't exist now, for fucks sake. It can't. It's a fucking fiction.
Again, not possible outside your own head, which seems to have detached from reality quite a bit.
More lies.
Can't happen. Cause citizenship can't happen.
Seriously, what you have is two groups of delusionals killing each other over who's delusion everyone should be made to treat as real. Perhaps the problem lies with the process of being forced into others delusions, and not with which delusion is "better". :rolleyes:
Yes - Sinai IS Egyptian - but once upon a time it was occupied by Israel - in fact by some of the same settlers who now occupy Gaza. The point is that it is now part of a country which has control of its own borders - it remains unclear whether Palestinians will control even Rafah Crossing at this point, or what will happen to the Philadelphi Route. It is perfectly clear that there won't be freedom of movement between the West Bank and Gaza.
As for "demeaning" you - I merely pointed out that arguing that the internal politics of an Occupied people is nothing to do with the Occupiers is attempting to " build up a theory which completely ignores political reality"
That is comment on your posts in this thread - in no way is it an attack on you.
An isolated and savaged war zone for 40 years, I didn't expect Gaza to have the economy of the USA exactly.
Palestine was properous and self-sufficient before, and it will be again, thank you very much. For that to happen you simply need some basic things: such as for Gaza to have complete and secure independence and territorial integrity (unstable places don't attract a lot of business), to have its own airport up and running, to have full and free transport links with the rest of Palestine (Palestine has a lot to offer, from excellent olive oil to fruits and vegs to Dead Sea products to the tourism industry), and of course to have a workforce that is not routinely jailed without charge for months on end, or shot dead.
So in other words: Gaza will only be fucked up if Israel wants it to be. If Israel doesn't interfere and does all the right things then Gaza will do very well.
Care to tell me where I am currently placed then?
Or is everything surrounding me a fiction of my mind.
Yes, I have understood your attachment to the idea of relativity - but you're taking it a bit too far at points.
1. You need to have an educated work-force to work under the circumstrances you describe. I am talking about the plain worker who comes to Israel everyday to do manual labour - someone who without an education is highly unlikely to have a management job in an office.
2. What Dead Sea products do the Palestinians produce?