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a question on asylum seekrs specifically

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
no asylum seekers can make it here as there 1st safe place of call, does that mean we should have none

personally no matter what we should accept our fair share of refugees, and as there arent that many real refugee who make it it here, im quite happy to say, id do it at the moment on a "if youre a genuine refugee and make it here, youre in after the checks are done"

obvoiusly if EVERY refugee came to britain youd have to start limiting it, but at the moment comapred to rest of europe we should take our fair share :)

just posted this cause apollo tried to defend himself to right wingers by saying we send them back to place they came from if its safe, if they fail send them to the country they were known to be in last, surely its a moral duty to help those in need as best we can, those who make false claims should be dealt with AS APPROPIATE, and there should be room for appeal as bad decsion are always made
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is possible to get here as first safe port, sailing around spain and france from africa is possible (though I don't know if it's ever been done) and of course fake documents to fly direct from any number of locations on the planet.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Many do come across other countries first, because they know that we will look after them better than other countries, something I think we should be proud of.

    In real terms we take a stupidly small amount of asylum seekers, about 20,000 all in.

    I can however see the logic in working with both the EU and the UN to take blocks of asylum seekers and sharing them out, rather than the piece meal approach now.

    But then that might mean giving power to Brussels and surely they would make us speak French and ban pork pies.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    It is possible to get here as first safe port, sailing around spain and france from africa is possible

    It'd have to be some extraordinarily bad navigation not to see France and Spain on the way past. If you can see them from a boat, I'd say they count as safe ports particularly when faced with a trip across the Bay of Biscay in a potentially dodgy boat.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I said possible, not likely.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no asylum seekers can make it here as there 1st safe place of call, does that mean we should have none

    By air they can........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If an asylum seeker is in fear of his/her life then they should seek asylum at the first safe state they come, which normally isn't Britain. Many go on via boat, train or plane to the Uk because they preceive us to be more generous with housing, medical assistance, education, cash benefits, etc.
    Its obvious we cannot house all the asylum seekers of the world but first we need to differentiate between those genuinely fleeing for their lives and those who are really economic migrants in disguise.
    I believe we, in conjunction with our European friends, should negotaite quotas so that no one state is over-burdened with the problem, and also agree what constitutes an genuine asylum seeker.

    I personally think we should have a separate "Immigration Tax" on everyone's income so that we can both see and feel the cost of catering for asylum seekers. Many taxpayers may want to pay more to cater for the cost of allowing in more aslyum seekers, it could be a very positive initiative that allow in many more.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From http://www.cre.gov.uk/gdpract/refuge.html

    Asylum seekers are just a huge expense to the British taxpayer.

    The facts
    A recent Home Office study found that, far from being a burden on UK taxpayers, migrants made a net contribution of approximately £2.5 billion to income tax in 1999-2000.

    and the original stats

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration1.html

    So under the system you suggest people would theoritically be paid money for allowing asylum seekers in
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    From http://www.cre.gov.uk/gdpract/refuge.html

    Asylum seekers are just a huge expense to the British taxpayer.

    The facts
    A recent Home Office study found that, far from being a burden on UK taxpayers, migrants made a net contribution of approximately £2.5 billion to income tax in 1999-2000.

    and the original stats

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration1.html

    So under the system you suggest people would theoritically be paid money for allowing asylum seekers in


    is that all people coming in or just asylum seekers?

    anyway it isnt all aobut economics, its a moral duty to help hose in need who make it here
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    I believe we, in conjunction with our European friends, should negotaite quotas so that no one state is over-burdened with the problem, and also agree what constitutes an genuine asylum seeker..

    I agree, maybe we should take some of the burden of the Germans and take more ourselves.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    From http://www.cre.gov.uk/gdpract/refuge.html

    Asylum seekers are just a huge expense to the British taxpayer.

    The facts
    A recent Home Office study found that, far from being a burden on UK taxpayers, migrants made a net contribution of approximately £2.5 billion to income tax in 1999-2000.

    and the original stats

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration1.html

    So under the system you suggest people would theoritically be paid money for allowing asylum seekers in

    I question the figures quoted and would offer an alternative take on this, with particular reference to "Overall Economic Benefit" - point 16.

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/frameset.asp?menu=publications&page=publications.asp
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In other words, you question facts and figures if they go against your agenda...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    In other words, you question facts and figures if they go against your agenda...
    No, simply that stats are stats are stats ..... We need to be very circumspect when it comes to "proving" things with figures! Nothing is as it appears!! Even that mighty international oil company Shell produced "funny" figures that proved totally false!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    No, simply that stats are stats are stats ..... We need to be very circumspect when it comes to "proving" things with figures! Nothing is as it appears!! Even that mighty international oil company Shell produced "funny" figures that proved totally false!!

    So we should never trust any figures and just go on gut instint which is telling you there is an asylum crisis, why?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Its obvious we cannot house all the asylum seekers of the world but first we need to differentiate between those genuinely fleeing for their lives and those who are really economic migrants in disguise.
    I believe we, in conjunction with our European friends, should negotaite quotas so that no one state is over-burdened with the problem, and also agree what constitutes an genuine asylum seeker.
    I thought we were 32nd on the list of countries that houses asylum seekers.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was fascinated to read which country takes the most refugees in the world - unsurprisingly no one in office got even close
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    If an asylum seeker is in fear of his/her life then they should seek asylum at the first safe state they come, which normally isn't Britain. Many go on via boat, train or plane to the Uk because they preceive us to be more generous with housing, medical assistance, education, cash benefits, etc.
    Its obvious we cannot house all the asylum seekers of the world but first we need to differentiate between those genuinely fleeing for their lives and those who are really economic migrants in disguise.
    I believe we, in conjunction with our European friends, should negotaite quotas so that no one state is over-burdened with the problem, and also agree what constitutes an genuine asylum seeker.

    I personally think we should have a separate "Immigration Tax" on everyone's income so that we can both see and feel the cost of catering for asylum seekers. Many taxpayers may want to pay more to cater for the cost of allowing in more aslyum seekers, it could be a very positive initiative that allow in many more.

    Your argument is that the geographically closest country who is classified as "safe" should assume full responsibility for the refugees/asylum seekers?

    A nice big fat blanket law that doesn't take into account anything other than geographical proximity.

    I normally find that people opposed to immigration are horribly misinformed about the real figures and are blinded by the horrific spin of trashy papers and rival political parties. Often the real issue boils down to the fact that some countries refuse to admit asylum seekers and that they feel the UK takes more than its fair share. It doesn't, and it's inexcusable that said countries refuse entry.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    No, simply that stats are stats are stats ..... We need to be very circumspect when it comes to "proving" things with figures! Nothing is as it appears!! Even that mighty international oil company Shell produced "funny" figures that proved totally false!!
    And yet you see fit to quote the single most inaccurate and misleading newspaper in the whole of Europe if not the world, the Daily HateMail, as a valid source!

    Good one! :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is the difference between someone who just lives and works here and a citizen?

    Anyone know cos I don't.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    I question the figures quoted and would offer an alternative take on this, with particular reference to "Overall Economic Benefit" - point 16.

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/frameset.asp?menu=publications&page=publications.asp

    Hmmm yes, a site run by a eugenics supporter. Nice.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    I was fascinated to read which country takes the most refugees in the world - unsurprisingly no one in office got even close

    Isnt it somewhere really strange like Iran?

    The massive majority of refugees never get anywhere near First World countries.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pakistan 1,130,697 then Iran with 1,117,220 (as of Sept 2003)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was close.

    They take over a million and we, being fantastically wealthy take 20,000.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    And yet you see fit to quote the single most inaccurate and misleading newspaper in the whole of Europe if not the world, the Daily HateMail, as a valid source!

    Good one! :)
    Look again lamp boy, its not the Daily Mail, just proves you're don't read things carefully enough you naughty little lamp boy!!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Right does anyone know what this lamp boy thing means? Aladdin?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    Right does anyone know what this lamp boy thing means? Aladdin?

    Well Aladdin found a Genie in a lamp didn't he...well the one in the movies anyway, I can't comment about this Aladdin. I think its RK trying to make an insult though.

    Keep up with your stories and Disney films Jim. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wasn't Aladdin a boy with a lamp?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Doh! last genie film I saw was Thief of Baghdad - not sure Aladdin would approve
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I choose to ignore such remarks Jim V... it pisses them off the most when they don't get a reaction. :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I choose to ignore such remarks Jim V... it pisses them off the most when they don't get a reaction. :)
    Doncha just luv it! I do! I don't need a reaction. Anyway if you can't stand the heat you shouldn't be in the kitchen and all that .... I'm called all sorts of names on here but I don't complain, I just let it ride because I'm a big boy!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who says it's bothering me?

    That's what you wish :D
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