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Bush and fundies change law to interfere with woman's right to die

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Totally agree Mushy24, well said.
    There'll be some on here who will immediately vent their anti-American spleen on this or any other topic that has an American connection.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rather than those who will show their contempt for the true "rule of law" under which ALL (including our own nation) must be held to account. Apologists for wanton criminals, propagandistic war-profiteers and betrayors of every founding principle of our nation, like yourself, are those who are "anti-American" by definition.

    Clearly your self-interest and wealth come before Constitutionally-mandated civic duty to hold our leaders accountable.

    Just keep on spewing the bs, Richey Rich, one day even your precious gated communities wont save you and those elitists like you from the backlash to come.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clandestine, I fear for your rationality! Calm yourself, think about what you're really saying. The rich and powerful will prevail. Its just that you won't be among them!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Best you educate yourself on history and its reptition dear boy. Tis your delusions which are headed for a rude awakening lest you come to your senses soon.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mushy24 wrote:
    Funny - I'd say I am QUITE PROUD to be an American. I wouldn't knock the US if I were you - you still have Tony Blair.
    I wasn't. I was genuinely feeling sorry for all the decent people in America watching their once democratic nation descending to a fundamentalist theocracy. And incidentally that would include many Republican voters who did not realise they were voting for a theocracy.
    The parents should have the right to decide if this woman should live or die, not the husband who has decided to move on 12 years ago. I don't know how much media coverage this gets outside of the US but I do know that these parents have hope that their daughter will one day recover and there have been many doctors that will agree with them - the possibility is there. And who should decide what quality of life is - just because her life is not what you or I would want, how do we REALLY know that SHE would want to die (there is no documentation of what she wants).
    Since the woman is in a permanent vegetative state that most doctors agree is irreversible, and since the husband is the next of in, and since she had expressed her wishes to be allowed to die with dignity such scenario ever came up, I think she should just be allowed to do so.

    I am sorry for all concerned including the parents. But keeping her alive is wrong.

    The most disturbing issue of all is the disgusting political manipulation by the Christian Right in America and the political system. There is no end of things that are wrong with the chimp re-writing the law overnight to please the wishes of the pro-life scumbag lobbyists.

    And shit-stirring fundies like Mel Gibson who have played a part in this disgraceful episode should be nailed to a cross at the earliest convenience.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    their once democratic nation descending to a fundamentalist theocracy

    You seriously think that? Nah, you must be joking.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I wasn't. I was genuinely feeling sorry for all the decent people in America watching their once democratic nation descending to a fundamentalist theocracy. And incidentally that would include many Republican voters who did not realise they were voting for a theocracy.
    Absolute hokum! And you know it. I bet you were smiling when you wrote that!
    Since the woman is in a permanent vegetative state that most doctors agree is irreversible,
    Not all doctors, where's there's life there's hope.
    and since the husband is the next of in,
    Since he's run off with another woman I don't think he's totally unbiased. He probably finds it "inconvenient" having his wife still around.
    and since she had expressed her wishes to be allowed to die with dignity such scenario ever came up, I think she should just be allowed to do so.
    You may think so but you're not God, or are you arrogant enough to think you are?
    I am sorry for all concerned including the parents. But keeping her alive is wrong.
    Her parents want to keep her alive, and who are you to question that? You've got no say in this matter, thank God!
    The most disturbing issue of all is the disgusting political manipulation by the Christian Right in America and the political system.
    Absolute rubbish. There is no "political manipulation" as you so inaccurately call it. You've been reading too many left-wing articles written by people who have no understanding of the world today.
    There is no end of things that are wrong with the chimp re-writing the law overnight to please the wishes of the pro-life scumbag lobbyists.
    As soon as your morally bankrupt argument runs out of steam you turn to cheap personal abuse - typical!
    And shit-stirring fundies like Mel Gibson who have played a part in this disgraceful episode should be nailed to a cross at the earliest convenience.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Absolute hokum! And you know it. I bet you were smiling when you wrote that!
    Smiling is just about the last thing on my mind regarding this repulsive chain of events.

    Not all doctors, where's there's life there's hope.
    In this case, as indeed many others, there isn't.
    Since he's run off with another woman I don't think he's totally unbiased. He probably finds it "inconvenient" having his wife still around.
    Right because you know what's going through his mind. Clearly he's not allowed to rebuild his life while looking after the interests and wishes of his dead wife.

    What an insulting and patronising attitude... Heavens forbid you find yourself in a similar situation, but if you did you might see things in a different way.
    You may think so but you're not God, or are you arrogant enough to think you are?
    What on earth has a god to do with anything in this case? :confused:

    Her parents want to keep her alive, and who are you to question that? You've got no say in this matter, thank God!
    And her husband, her next of kin, and incidentally carrying out the wishes of his wife, wants to end such appalling situation. Who are you, the fundies and Republican politicians to question that?

    Absolute rubbish. There is no "political manipulation" as you so inaccurately call it. You've been reading too many left-wing articles written by people who have no understanding of the world today.
    A bit naive aren't you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Since the woman is in a permanent vegetative state that most doctors agree is irreversible, and since the husband is the next of in, and since she had expressed her wishes to be allowed to die with dignity such scenario ever came up, I think she should just be allowed to do so.


    I just want to focus on the "most doctors would agree is irreversible" - you prove my point. Thank you. Let the family have hope. Perhaps most doctors do say it is irreversible - but not all of them. Out of curiousity did you see the video recordings of her taken by her parents? After watching them ,one could easily argue that she is aware of her surroundings.

    Oh and by the way, I do not want your pitty. If you did not like this country than you did the right thing by moving out of it. I thank you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Totally agree Mushy24, well said.
    There'll be some on here who will immediately vent their anti-American spleen on this or any other topic that has an American connection.


    hmmm..... I think we'd get along well. :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest if I was in a coma for fifteen years I hope that after a few years my wife would try and get on with her life... even if that involved meeting someone new.

    And after fifteen years I would say the hope of her waking up is small (though I've heard of cases where people have woken up from long-term comas).

    And from what I've read no-one is going to kill her, they are simply going to withold treatment - which is a different thing altogether.

    I feel sorry for her parents, but there seems no real point in artificially keeping her alive, when there is no evidence that she is going to recover. At some point its better to just let go...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    And from what I've read no-one is going to kill her, they are simply going to withold treatment - which is a different thing altogether.

    They've removed her feeding tube.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mushy24 wrote:
    I just want to focus on the "most doctors would agree is irreversible" - you prove my point. Thank you. Let the family have hope.
    No. Let her husband and next of kin have closure. Let him carry out the wishes of his late wife. Let her die with dignity as she wished.
    Oh and by the way, I do not want your pitty. If you did not like this country than you did the right thing by moving out of it. I thank you.
    Er... I never lived there. You might be confusing me with Clandestine.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Er... I never lived there. You might be confusing me with Clandestine.

    sorry, I guess I did.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mushy24 wrote:
    They've removed her feeding tube.
    But fear not because in a matter of hours the hate fundie mob will have their wishes granted by the chimp and the tube will be reinserted, happily ensuring the the geranium-like fantastic life the woman has enjoyed for fifteen years will carry on indefinitely.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    But fear not because in a matter of hours the hate fundie mob will have their wishes granted by the chimp and the tube will be reinserted, happily ensuring the the geranium-like fantastic life the woman has enjoyed for fifteen years will carry on indefinitely.
    Does your arrogance know no bounds?

    Who are you to decide her quality of life? Who are you to end her life without her explicit consent? Who are you to overrule her family's wishes?

    Whilst I completely agree that people in her position should be allowed to die if that is what they so wish, I cannot help but point out the irony of your position. Yes, Bush and Congress should have no say in this very personal circumstance, but your intolerance of opinions opposite to your own is astounding.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was her wish not to be kept artificially alive should such a thing happen.

    It is her next of kin's wish to allow her to die with dignity.

    Therefore, and tragic as it is for the rest of the woman's family, she is entitled to and should be allowed to die.

    I feel it is perhaps you and those who campaign to keep her body alive who are acting arrogantly and ignoring the wishes of her husband, and more importantly the woman herself.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I feel it is perhaps you and those who campaign to keep her body alive who are acting arrogantly and ignoring the wishes of her husband, and more importantly the woman herself.
    Moi? I have no interest in keeping this poor woman alive against her wishes ( as stated above).

    My usual caveat is that we don't know any details of the case so cannot honestly comment, but I think people in her position who are only kept alive by artificial means should not be kept alive against their wishes. But we as outsiders cannot possibly make that decision for anybody. Your assumption that disabled people have terrible quality of life really irritates me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So if "we as outsiders" cannot make such decision for everybody, that presumably includes pro-lifers, demented actors and right wing politicians (so long as they are not directly related to the victim of course).

    Better tell that to the mega-powerful Christian Right in America, the ultra right wing Republican government of George W. Bush, the lovely Mel Gibson and countless more.

    Because the courts had already decided she should be allowed to die, and she would have finally done so if it weren't for the snowballing campaign mounted by some very hateful and intruding outsiders that culminated in the chimp cutting short his holiday and re-writing US law to please the hate mobs.

    I've said on several occasions since the US election that the fundamentalist right in America, having been directly responsible for Bush's victory, was going to make him (and indeed the American nation) pay them back for the favour.

    Here's the first installment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's nothing wrong with being pro-life. It's just immature to use that as an insult. It is wrong, however, to force those beliefs on others.

    I believe laws are needed, because relatives and NoKs don't always have the patient's best interests at heart (believe it or not) and medicine is developing all the time to turn formally terminal conditions into treatable or even curable ones.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sure laws are needed to ensure there are no abuses and the patient's interest is looked after.

    I know you already agree with me that in this particular case, political intervention and the re-writing of a law overnight was deeply wrong and that the patient's wishes have been ignored, mostly because of political pressure from the hard right.

    You're right, being pro-life as such is not wrong. It becomes wrong when you impose your beliefs on others, as the organised pro-life lobby in the US has very efficiently done here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's better. See, you can argue without being argumentative. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good, let's try to do it more often :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    It was her wish not to be kept artificially alive should such a thing happen.

    It is her next of kin's wish to allow her to die with dignity.

    Actually - there is NO documentation that SHE wanted to die, this is only what her husband says. Typically when there is nothing written by the person - the hospital will try very hard to keep them alive.

    Terry is not being kept artificially alive, she is breathing on her own, her heart is beating on it's own...... she has (or should I say "had") a feeding tube, that does not mean she is artificially being kept alive.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mushy24 wrote:
    Terry is not being kept artificially alive, she is breathing on her own, her heart is beating on it's own...... she has (or should I say "had") a feeding tube, that does not mean she is artificially being kept alive.
    Without the tube would she be alive? = artificial.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Her husband is her legal guardian - what are the powers he has to refuse medical treatment for her?!?!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Without the tube would she be alive? = artificial.


    Ahhh..... so you are in the medical profession? Some say yes, some say no. I guess that's part of what the debate is all about.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mushy24 wrote:
    Ahhh..... so you are in the medical profession? Some say yes, some say no. I guess that's part of what the debate is all about.
    I don't know how this woman was fed - whether by PEG or NG tube, and I'm no expert on palliative care but she is being kept alive only because of the active medical treatment she receives.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    I don't know how this woman was fed - whether by PEG or NG tube, and I'm no expert on palliative care but she is being kept alive only because of the active medical treatment she receives.


    It is a PEG tube..


    *PEG percutaneous endoscopic gastrotomy i.e. a tube that enters the stomach through the skin on the abdomen*
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Just for saving a life? You are not God.

    :lol:

    I think God wants this woman to die, it's man who is keeping her alive.
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