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Waiting lists, dirty hospitals, lack of nurses and doctors, out dated equipment, cancelled operations. Need I go on? The NHS is heading for meltdown and it needs privitising.
Thats how much it costs, you may not want to believe it, but its true.
For the vast majority.
FACT : This is a load of bollocks. Private companies do not get bail outs from the state, therefore are more efficient.
Yes, and when people are encouraged to buy shares in these companeis (eg in the 80's) not only do the private companies get more cash to spend but the shareholder also gets a stake in the company, enhancing stability and productivity. You have absolutely no evidence that state run services are any better because you have been completely brainwashed by the leftist consensus that has existed for the past 60 years. Dont feel bad, this is the case with most people. But in the next 10 years or so when state run services approach meltdown, you will be sorry that things werent changed earlier.
If you can afford it.
So you're an anarchist then?
The NHS is a very good service ime.
It is a myth that if everything was privitised we would end up paying more for things like health and education. YOu would be suprised how much tax we actually pay, and labour has accelerated this robbery with its stealth taxes.
Not at all, I nevr said I didnt want a government, just that the one we have now drastically needs cutting back.
Its underfundning and privatisation that are fucking it up.
Errr...they do actually.
So creaming off profit is a good idea is it? You don't actually understand the world do you?
I agree, but for very different reasons than you.
Yes , underfunding but TRUE privitisation would solve this. How much more money would we all have if we didnt pay massive taxes? Fuckloads more.
Under New Labours half baked half measures, maybe, but not under properly privitised services.
I know you think profit is a bad thing, I did read the other thread, but I dont want to get into that debate here.
Sorry, what? How is running something for the benefit of a minority a better service?
Its not run for the minority, where did you get that idea?
Where do you think profit comes from?
Errrr...that's exactly how private businesses are run.
There is no real choice in a privatised monopoly: if my bus in a morning doesn't turn up, it makes no difference to Stagecoach, because I'll still be stood there when the next one turns up. I can't get to work any other way.
Are you being deliberately obtuse, or just getting desperate?
Of course it does...
And if it did I wouldn't matter. Small price to pay. You wouldn't want the workforce to be ill and not be able to work and make fat profits for bosses, would you?
...of CEOs and bosses.
Not of the tens of millions of ordinary people.
Not to mention housewives. I guess a woman who never worked but raised her family and ran the family home (just as you ultra conservative types want, incidentally :rolleyes: ) doesn't deserve a decent pension, does she?
FACT: Your ignorance is astonishing. Private companies who run public services GET bailouts all the time from the State when no profit can be made, and then keep all the profit for themselves and invest fuck all back when the accounts are in the black.
Do you know what the railways are? Do you pay any attention to how they are run and financed since they were privatised?
Do you live in this country? I'm starting to doubt it.
Brainwashed eh? LOL. I've never seen such a sad and pathetic case of brainwashing as yours, my friend.
No evidence, eh?
I'll give a word: France.
In fact, I'll give you another: Spain.
Both countries with a trillion times better railways than Britain- not to mention the pisspoor US network.
Oh dear dear dear...
Partly true, and partly false.
GNER pays a premium of £25million pa to the government, First Great Western pay a premium of over £60million pa to the Government. To say that these private companies are getting bailouts is inaccurate (although at the beginning of the franchises they did receive a subsidy which has now been paid back).
But the list of state bailouts to private companies is huge. BNFL, Croydon Tram, Virgin Trains, Jarvis (education, railways, the lot), Northern Spirit railways, Connex...
About the railways though, Aladdin, your anger is misplaced. The TOCs (i.e. the company that runs the trains) aren't the ones making the obscene profits: HSBC and Abbey National are, because they own the trains. Trains that the taxpayer bought and paid for were sold cheaply, and now a small two-carriage DMU will costs £200,000 pa to hire. It's no wonder that more subsidy is spent: it used to cost BR £0 pa.
You're issue isn't with tax in this instance.
It's with the way that benfits are handled, the work ethic of certain people and the abuse of a fundementally really good system.
Come back to that topic when you have done some proper research so that you know what you are talking about.
Wrong, with the upcoming retirement of the baby boomer generation the workforce will shrink drastically. Therefore in order to keep the baby boomers alive through the NHS the workforce will have to pay more and more tax to support it. This isnt just a UK problem, all of the European wlfare states are running into a massive crisis that is only solvable by drastic cutting back in state benefits.
Trillions of dollars in taxation is not a small price to pay. Your cavalier attitude toward basic economics and peoples incomes is disturbing.
Wrong, in a properly privitised service industry there would be NO bailouts because the company wouldnt need them.
Yes, and the privitisations were a load of bollocks. They were not done properly.
Ill give you a word: piss poor economic growth, bloated states systems and in the case of Germany, 5 million unemployed.
Oh dear, dear, dear.
So what would happen if a school or hospital got into trouble? They'd fold leaving no service at all. Great idea there.
deregulation would make it easier for another hospital to be set up, and there would be another one anyway. The point is competition breeds efficiency, something the left cant seem to grasp.
Shit logic there Matadore. How would many hospitals be sustainable and profitable in one area? Services like health etc are too vital to be left to the chances of business. You're crazy to suggest otherwise. Competition does not breed efficiency. It breeds greed and cutbacks and doing things on the cheap.
A massive state bureaucracy breeds inefficiency, laziness, poor services and monopoly as well as huge amounts of red tape.
I dont understand your point here, people will still get ill under the system I am proposing, so there would always be a market for treatment whatever the illness.
I agree that state run services are not perfect. But private companies are run purely for the benefit of a minority of people. Explain to me how that will make for a good health service?
Only if someone can afford it.
No they arent. There is no absolute poverty in Britain, we are an affluent society and with all the moeny people save off tax they would be more than capable of providing for themselves.
99% of people would be able to, and whats more they would all get a better quality of service than we get under the NHShite.
It doesn't have to be that way. It isn't automatic.
A complacent management culture can be changed by the same methods - targets, incentive bonusses, cost benefit analysis etc, whether it is state controlled or privately managed.
You sound like a New Labour minister.
History says otherwise. Give me a government run system that isnt in some way inefficient, corrupt or mismanaged?