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and if they wanted it ...i'm sure they could fight mostly their own battles .
oh god, you're nearly as bad as luke, i'd expect more from you.
in what respect?
did you or did you not come into a thread about legalising cannabis and started calling everyone names and shouting un called for obscenities.
That is the most ridiculous statistic and argument.
Saddam's regime itself was killing and abusing Iraqis, you call America and Israel terrorist governments. I don't agree with the definition, but why don't you apply the same definition to Saddam's government? Surely with your reasoning Saddam's regime was committing hundreds of terrible "terrorist" acts a day.
but come on ...
you can't contradict yourself, if you say right now on this thread "Bush,Sharon and Sadam are terrorists" then i'll take your point.
Good point. But you still can't compare our government to the regimes mentioned before.
Not even in the same league.
Are you for real? They've caused some suffering yes with the long term goal to bring about a better situation. Regardless of whether you agree with the legality or morality of the invasion they never caused suffering or deaths of civilians with with intent. It is the terrorists who are currently killing Iraqi civilians.
Its a fact, the USA invaded Iraq (illegally perhaps) but it is in no way there fault that these extremists are killing people.
Yeah I know, I just think its odd how people have latched onto the Uzbeks boiling people example to discredit Bush's choice of allies.
I accept the point though, you can't criticise one nasty regime then go be friends with a similarly ghastly one.
No my point was that he was making out that there were "zero" terrorist acts in Iraq before the war. But he's previously argued that Bush and Sharon are terrorists. Which seemed contradictory.
I don't claim that Bush, Sharon or Saddam are terrorists.
Ok I can't come up with figures, but there was consistent atrocities being committed. It was a horrible place prior to the Invasion just as it is now in a different way. Irrespective of what Michael Moore will tell you Iraq was like pre-invasion.
nope, by saying bush and sharon arne't terrorists implies you believing that governments can't be terrorists, or is it only governments america doesn't like, again, you can't contradict yourself.
so you're saying all these terrorists would have came in and started shooting if sadam was still in power, don't think so, it's america's presence that's making them kill, if america left, the problem would be solved
You misunderstood me.
Maybe I'm just bad at articulating my arguments. :chin:
1)I don't believe governments can be classed as terrorists.
2)Alladin et al. believe they can.
3)Alladin says Iraq was terrorism free before the American invasion.
4)I say if he calls Bush and Sharon terrorists then surely Saddam was a terrorist too, meaning that his two arguments:
a)Bush and Sharon are terrorists
b)There was "zero" terrorism in Iraq prior the invasion.
Are therefore contradictory. Hope thats clear enough.
No there was a different group of people killing before America + friends came in.
America is not responsible for the crimes of the terrorists. Even if they havent acted completely correctly in other respects you can't blame them for the terrorism of Muslim extremists.
point taken, now let me get this straight, aladin is contradicting himself and you believe there were no terrorist attacks before the invasion
there are groups of people killing in the streets of the uk, in america, they're not terrorists.
Where do you get this Muslim exteremism from, yeh al-zaqwari is a nutter but to say all the people fighting against the US army are muslim extremists is just pure stupid and lacks logic, nationalism accounts for most of the freedom fighters actions
Nothing to do with religion is it?
Why is it only Sunni muslims and not Shiites then?
Why do foreigners (Arab muslims) come to Iraq to commit terrorist acts?
Stupid point. Yes you're right, not EVERYONE who kills people is a terrorist. So?
The terrorists in Iraq are still terrorists.
you are completely missing the point, "why is it only sunni" :mad: fuck sake religion has a part but a very fucking minor one at that
excuse me, you were the one saying there were killers in iraq before the americans came, you trying to say they were terrorists now? sorry you're confusing me
these people seem to have plenty of weapons and volunteers ...no shortage of anger and hatred and belief and heroics and bravery ...
they weren't this angry about hussien.
Nah you're missing the point.
I think they probably were "as angry", but the situation is different. More to the point you, nor I had any news coverage whatsoever during the previous Iraqi regime. So none of us have that clear a picture of what went on, apart from the fact that Hussein was cruel and barbaric and there were various failed rebellions and attempted coups.
You're confusing yourself!
a place the likes of the legendary osama brothers hated ...hated with a vengance ...to0 western and decadant.
thriving universties and building jobs galore.
propperty prices were still rising in the suburbs on the eve of the invasion ...cos even the iraquis who wanted saddam destroying ...were not expecting what happened and is continuing to happen.
how did you see iraq and bagdhad?
:banghead: You obviously have no idea of the history regarding U.S. foreign policy......or British for that matter. Governments are usually the worst terrorists, that do killing on the largest scale.........but if you swallow the media's lies you wouldn't know would you.......
oh and you misquoted me a few pages back, no biggie i happen to agree with that poster's views.
Hmmmm, you have a romanticised view to say the least. I'm sure it wasn't hell on earth but it wasn't as pleasant as you make out. I know they were experiencing a limited economic revival of sorts in the couple of years before the invasion though, despite the sanctions and oppressive, mass murderers in power.
I have a pretty good grasp of history thankyouverymuch! :thumb:
Swallowing the media's lies eh? Which particular part of the media? Do you have any idea what news outlets supposedly form my opinions? No you don't.
I don't think governments can be called terrorists its just a linguistic issue nothing to be fixated on.