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Today's front pages

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    If I might try (unsuccessfully I fear) to steer the thread back to its intended subject, yes, that Independent front page is pure genius. Absolutely ace.

    In fact they should do it more often. I wish they'd come up with something like that when Saint Diana died, or when the Queen Mother passed away, or every time a little girl is killed by a paedophile and the whole of the media goes into overdrive for two weeks on the trot...

    The Independent cover is great, I usually buy it and the Guardian anyway but looked at it and thought I would especially today. Good old Independent with real news. Also I like it because Mark Steel writes in it occasionly :thumb

    ETA: The wedding isnt even mentioned until page 6.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because that we're human beings and make as much noise as any other group would do under similar circumstances.

    Because our great-grandparents faced the Kozaks. Because our grandparents faced Nazism. Because our parents faced Communism. Because we apparently won't be the first generation not to face some sort of opposition.


    youre taking this rather personally, racist attacks as a whole are rising, and no group deserve special treatment in tackling it

    yeh its worrying the amount of ignorance and lack of "as long you arent attacking anyone else with your beliefs its okay"
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JtR and Lukesh, im sorry but i really think you are being unfair on this particular occasion. yes you may have had tussles with fiend in the past, but that doesnt make every single post that she makes racist or anti-semetic. i think this first post was far from it- she was simply curious about comparisons.

    my thoughts myself as i read through this trend were similar- is it jus a rise in anti-semetic incidents or was it universal? im sure if i'd asked for data to compare then i would not have been called racist. you're all welcome to disagree, stop thinking it's a personal vendetta.

    and JtR- what about the african americans who have faced persecution and slavery throughout generations?? the 1500s, they were persecuted slaves, and even after the abolition of slavery, they had few to no rights, and still today they face persecution. and the indigenous american tribes, whose culture was abolished in the 1500s, and even when autonomy was returned to the region in the 1800s was still not allowed to practice any of its culture, then facing the dictators of the 1900s...and generations today are still facing a struggle for their rights. it isn't just one ethnic group who are having troubles- it's human nature.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    youre taking this rather personally, racist attacks as a whole are rising, and no group deserve special treatment in tackling it

    Where have I said they do?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Where have I said they do?

    you haven't specifically, but you are taking it rather personally, i think people are trying to show you that other groups recieve the attacks too. you got a bit irate when evidence was asked for across a whole range of ethnic groups rather than just accepting what you were saying about you being correct.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JtR and Lukesh, im sorry but i really think you are being unfair on this particular occasion. yes you may have had tussles with fiend in the past, but that doesnt make every single post that she makes racist or anti-semetic. i think this first post was far from it- she was simply curious about comparisons.

    my thoughts myself as i read through this trend were similar- is it jus a rise in anti-semetic incidents or was it universal? im sure if i'd asked for data to compare then i would not have been called racist. you're all welcome to disagree, stop thinking it's a personal vendetta.

    and JtR- what about the african americans who have faced persecution and slavery throughout generations?? the 1500s, they were persecuted slaves, and even after the abolition of slavery, they had few to no rights, and still today they face persecution. and the indigenous american tribes, whose culture was abolished in the 1500s, and even when autonomy was returned to the region in the 1800s was still not allowed to practice any of its culture, then facing the dictators of the 1900s...and generations today are still facing a struggle for their rights. it isn't just one ethnic group who are having troubles- it's human nature.

    No one has called fiend any of those things, contrary she's the one to suggest that I was racist. Maybe she is being unfair?


    Again, no one is belittling other groups hardships. The headline spoke about anti-semitism and that was what I was commenting on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you haven't specifically, but you are taking it rather personally, i think people are trying to show you that other groups recieve the attacks too. you got a bit irate when evidence was asked for across a whole range of ethnic groups rather than just accepting what you were saying about you being correct.

    No one was commenting on her wanting statistics... I really didn't care about her asking for those. I couldn't produc the links, so left it alone. As said it isn't a competition, and I was talking about a specific headline. Not in general.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lukesh wrote:
    it is wrong to be racist against any group and thats including jews. fiend you're just showing how racist anti jewish you really are.

    sorry JtR, but yes lukesh did- perhaps i got mixed up with including you tho, apologies! i think my point to you was meant to say that she wasn't nitpicking, but genuinely interested as to whether it was across the board.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Independants is brilliant. For all their subtlety they might as well have had "Who gives a shit?" written on it :D

    I wish they'd shut the fuck up about it, there are far more important things going on.

    The Independant :heart:

    It's a shame it costs a bit more than most over papers.

    The royals will always make front page. I remember when I was a kid the queen fell off her horse and it made the headlines. I was like what the hell?. Considering there had been an earthquake somewhere else in the world... I mean how many people around the UK actually ever discuss the royal family when they aren't making the front page? It's not like a major factor in our lives is it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    83 physical attacks against Jewish persons, 4 of which were life threatening. But no context - no evidence that people were attacked because of their ethnicity .
    Indeed - is a burglary of a synagogue an act of anti-Semitism? Is a mugging of an overtly Orthodox Jew an anti-Semitic crime?
    Hmmmmm....... again, no actual examples.
    I'd be interested to see examples of this so-called "anti-semitic literature". I personally have never come across or heard of any such material.

    Again, I wonder if "literature" criticisng Israeli policies, for example, would count as anti-Semitic.

    I do think this is a complex problem, simply because Israel is supposedly the Jewish state, so Judaism and Israel become one and the same to the eyes of outsiders, and Israel's actions come to represent all Jews. It then becomes less shocking that innocent Jews will bear the brunt of people's objections to the same.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoonRat wrote:
    I mean how many people around the UK actually ever discuss the royal family when they aren't making the front page? It's not like a major factor in our lives is it.
    You'd be surprised. The royals provide conversation in many an old people's home. :yes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    More to the point, I was thinking about how there was a 'rise' in domestic violence, but now it's widely accepted that the level is the same, but the reports are going up. It looks like the same thing here. The police were gettings loads of reports, and they (according to BBC news online) haven't gone up significantly, but because the CST are being told about them more, and now have the SAME NUMBER OF REPORTS as the police, it's a rise in anti-semitism?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Best soap opera this country ever came up with :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry JtR, but yes lukesh did- perhaps i got mixed up with including you tho, apologies! i think my point to you was meant to say that she wasn't nitpicking, but genuinely interested as to whether it was across the board.

    Then it is very unfortunate for her that she does it in such a way, where it continues a trend from other threads.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Best soap opera this country ever came up with :)
    The royals? Or debates that have any mention of Judaism on this board? :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Could be both ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    I'd be interested to see examples of this so-called "anti-semitic literature". I personally have never come across or heard of any such material.

    Hizb-Ut-Tahrir in Denmark gave out leaflets as well as their homepage saying to kill the Jews wherever you see them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hizb-Ut-Tahrir in Denmark gave out leaflets as well as their homepage saying to kill the Jews wherever you see them.
    Really? On what justification?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Really? On what justification?
    Probably regarding what happens in Israel.
    That doesn't make it legitimate though. Especially not when it said Jews and Wherever.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Probably regarding what happens in Israel.
    That doesn't make it legitimate though. Especially not when it said Jews and Wherever.
    Do you not see the difference though?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Do you not see the difference though?

    I see the difference between Jews and Israelis. Apparently you don't.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    You'd be surprised. The royals provide conversation in many an old people's home. :yes:
    Well maybe it depends on the environment one's in. In my town I haven't heard it discussed by people since high school and that was one young lady who's family is quite traditional and very middle class. However, have never heard it discussed in a pub.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I see the difference between Jews and Israelis. Apparently you don't.
    :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe there isn't a rise in racist attacks and anti-semetism... Maybe it's just because that society is less tolerent of this thuggish behaviour that people have more guts to report what has happened to them and the police take it more seriously.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    :confused:

    That's what I got out of your previous post which I originally replied to.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's what I got out of your previous post which I originally replied to.
    Yes, and I fail to see your point.

    Do you really not see a difference between venting frustrations with Israel and anti-Semitism?

    Of course printing leaflets that tell readers to kill Jews is wrong. But if the views are based on an objection to Israeli defence policy then I think it is absurd to claim that the views are genuinely anti-Semitic.

    Is Israel didn't claim the title 'Jewish state', do you think the same level of anti-Semitism would exist?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    youre taking this rather personally

    "Jew takes anti-semitic attacks personally" shocker...

    Seriously, what did you expect?
    racist attacks as a whole are rising, and no group deserve special treatment in tackling it

    To be fair, I don't think Jacq has ever denied that, but the story wasn't about other racist attacks, was it?

    I'm dubious of the figures, but I casnnot deny that I have seen a rise in anti-semitism, partly because, Kentish, too many people cannot separate Israel and Judaism. It works both ways.

    To me these figures represent no more than an increased awareness of race when crime is reported and for that I blame the Lawrence Inquiry...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do find myself being less sympathetic to the jewish race, than other races who have a history of facing oppression. I have questioned myself on this as i know it's wrong looking at it sensibly, but something in me has a bit of a "so what" attitude when i hear about anti-semitism. I feel ashamed of my attitude, as the holocaust has shown the horrific extent anti-semitism can rise to, so any instance of it should be heavily criticised, but i do feel this way, and nobody really criticises me for it, they actually encourage or fuel it more. A friend has recently converted to Islam, so his views of the Jewish race are awful, he has almost gone to the extent of denying the holocaust. I think because the Jewish race have historically been succesful and have more power than a lot of other oppressed races people feel less sorry for them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think the fact there are powerful jewish lobbies in the u.s. and here causes some resentment........certain decisions are being made in the jews interests, not for the country as a whole, e.g. i firmly believe the americans joined WWI solely on the condition Israel was created (this is not a conclusion i've jumped to).......it also seems that jews don't integrate as well into other countries as they are a 'people', i think some people find this unnerving.......like the 'if you're not with us you're against us' mentality........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    i think the fact there are powerful jewish lobbies in the u.s. and here causes some resentment........certain decisions are being made in the jews interests, not for the country as a whole, e.g. i firmly believe the americans joined WWI solely on the condition Israel was created (this is not a conclusion i've jumped to).......it also seems that jews don't integrate as well into other countries as they are a 'people', i think some people find this unnerving.......like the 'if you're not with us you're against us' mentality........

    Actually it is proposed that the Jews survival is because of their success at integrating into the societies in which they have been living, all while keeping up with their culture.
    I mean the Danish equivalent to the BNP party always uses Jews as an example of good integration.

    My grandmother came here at the age of 50+ and still read Danish papers and novels translated to Danish (even when she could read the original language). That is integration. Especially when she was that old and didn't work.
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