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Have we won ?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Has anybody noticed the complete lack of people informing us we are wrong ? where have they gone ? have we won, sent them packing for good ? or is it the calm before the storm ? I want a good argument ! Mods go find a policeman or somebody for us to debate with, get leah betts's dad, he will be happy to come on and put his argument across he's into the anti drugs stuff big time, he may have a good argument ? ANYBODY
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Everyone is biased about drugs in some way-if you have always had good experiences on drugs and have never experienced tragedy then it follows that you think drugs are ok.
If you are anti drugs then-well you may think they are bad, or you may think that it's up to the individual.
If your best friend or daughter died from drugs it's fairly likely that you will be anti drugs.
Everyone is biased-find out the facts and make your mind up. I don't bother arguing with people over drugs. I have had good and bad times and I'm not sure.
On that topic, did anyone see Richard and Judy last night, they were having a discussion on ecstasy testing kits. This woman who was pro-drugs said "E is a wonderful drug" and Judy looked really shocked and tried to cover it up.
Sorry, I think I went a bit off topic. I just don't see why people who do take drugs feel the need to convince others of how good they are.
I know Byny is willing to av a go now and again and MasterDevilish hates us 'druggies' and thinks that we should be put on an island together and nuked if I remember correctly.
Of course, at the moment you won't be able to admit it, but at the moment your minds are clouded by the chemicals and the memories of the chemicals. Think of what it is you consider a drug abuser. Or what you used to consider a druggie - a bad thing. A person who would get so off his face that he wouldn't know what planet he was on. Someone who would spend 100's of pounds on drugs, jus to get that next hit. Someone who spends large amounts of their time not on drugs thinking about when they next will be, looking pale, feeling down. Now look at yourselves. I bet there are a lot of similarities. Ok, you'll say that you're not addicted. So quit. And you'll say I could, but I don't want to. And you know how bad that sounds when you say it.
Theres also the fact that when you're on drugs you have no fucking control over what you are doing. Look in a mirror, or even better, take a photo and look at it when sober. You look half dead! You're gurning you're fcae into some hideous form, you loose coordination, you say a load of bullshit ("i'm sooooooo fucked")... It's a sorry sight, and you are some sorry people.
Lets talk about the risk... ok, the risk to your life is small, granted, so lets not go there. Lets instead talk about the risk of getting caught. Possesion of lets say 4 pills, you may get away with it, you may get your ass thrown in prison. And that could ruin your life good and proper. And you'll regret taking them when all you have to look at are the prison walls for 6-12 months.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
I think anyone who has the idea doing pills isn't a risk to there short term and long term health is pretty stupid, and no doubt there are thousands in clubs every weekend, and something tells me they are your future manic depressants, heroin addicts or prison inmates, simply because they didn't educate themselves first !
My views are somewhere in the middle. I believe it is important for the individual to make up his or her own mind on what they do to themselves. In the same way that they do when they smoke themselves to death or drink themselves into a stupor.
However, i live in a police family. my dad is an inspector, and has been in the police for 30 odd years. In that time he has seen a lot of things, and now spends his time running identification parades.
A lot of people here say that drugs don't lead to crime. However, he has told me, that over 80% of all the people he has pass through him are there because of a drug related offence. He doesn't hate drug users, except with all the hassle he gets from extra paperwork. But he is saddened by them, and at the trouble they find themselves in through one thing leading to another.
It is well known that space is notorious for drugs in several areas, and because of drugs space is the only place bar London to have police officers patrolling the streets with rifles. This is all caused by drugs, turf wars, territorial wars, whatever you want to call them.
I'm not leading anywhere with this, I'm not going to try and tell you drugs are bad, just to tell you that the problem of drugs is far greater than you realise in certain parts of the country.
Drugs are here to stay. No amount of laws or campaigning is going to change that. If the advantages for a person seem to outweigh the disadvantages then the chances are they will continue using drugs. I, for one, was a lot happier when I did "take drugs" (I hate saying that!) than I am now.
Your competely right yet I still choose to do them. This I might add is not because I can't live without them infact they're better when you sensible with the amount you take. For instance I havn't done any since NYE, I even been to an event and avoided doing any. After Xmas and New Years I needed a break and I've been sensible enough to realise that. Admitadly I will still do them but at least I know I have the will power to take control of my 'habit'.
I know the short term risks and possible long term damage these things might do yet I believe that in no other way can you reach that state, and I believe it's woprth it. In other words I'm taking full resonsibility for my actions and what may come of them!
No, most of the people my dad gets in are people being arrested for violent robberies, burglaries, in order to obtain money for the drugs. Whatever happens to legalise drugs, they will still cost money, and those who can't afford it will turn to crime.
The vicious shootings in space wouldn't take place if rival drugs dealers weren't trying to gain control of the market.
At the start of the week a 15 year old lad was shot in the head in the street and stumbled into somebody's house. In this same week there was a shooting, ending with a car chase resulting in the deaths of several people.
Both these events happened in one week, and both of them were caused by drugs.
You can't blame the drugs, it's the people involved. Same as internet crime; should the internet be gotten rid of just because certain people use it for those purposes?
Surely an argument for controlled leglislation would be to cut down these incidents.
Maybe so, but I doubt people are going to shoot each other over petty deals. Major drugs deals can usually net the dealer hundreds of thousands of pounds. Can you see why people might like to get a bit trigger happy?
Criminals diversify-if drugs laws were tightened and perfected so they were implemented 100%, do you think all the wannabe gangsters would just say "oh shit, the game's up, better go and work in Kwik Save and go straight".
Thats a fair point, but can you ask him
(a) how many were heroin / crack related ?
(b) does he believe any of i) weed ii) ecsatasy iii) speed iv) lsd v) magic mushrooms should be decriminlised ?
i would be very intrested if you could ? and his reasons, it would be great to get an opinion of somebody in his position !
as for nottingham having a big drug problem, that is very true, but it isn't widely recognised, wonder why
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These are addicts. I know a fair few people who do drugs and not one of them has turned to crime to pay for his drugs. That's because I don't know any heroin or crack addicts. Actually I have a criminal record for violence and it wasn't because I was on illegal drugs. It's because I was on a legal one...booze.
You say that over 80% of people your old man has to deal with is because of a drug related offence? I take it that's including alcohol. It's a well known fact that most violent offences are commited while people are drunk, then there are the drunk drivers. Did you know that in the paper yesterday a man got put away for 4 years for a hit and run while he was drunk. Thats about the same you'd get for having 20 pills on you. Which is worse?
I know for a fact WhoWhere you like many thousands each weekend enjoy a drink but I'm sure like most of them, you don't pay for your drinks from money you've stole. You are going to get individuals though that will turn to crime to feed their need for drugs same as alcoholics will often try to shoplift booze.
The law is unfair on those just wanting to have a good time and keep out of trouble. Simple as that.
This is good fun keep it comin...
Shame JC's not here.
Granted...but I'm only expressing what I know from my experiences with drugs and alcohol.
Ecstasy, Weed, Acid, Shrooms - you're even less likely to commit a violent offence while on one of these drugs than if you were straight. The main offences due to these drugs if they were legalised would be driving. Users of these drugs are generally not criminals save for their drug use. Also there is the aspect of what damge these drugs do to the individual.
Heroin, Coke, Crack - These are drugs people get easily addicted to and are likely to commit crime to fund their addiction.
Alcohol, Coke, (speed?) - These are drugs that are most likely to cause people to turn violent.
Some of you may not agree with that generalistaion but that is how I see it.
As with alcohol it would be a minority spoiling it for the majority if drugs were legalised, most, such as people on this board would be largely unaffected in there actions, but we are by nature careful due to the current atmosphere surrounding drugs, chuck in people who think its fine because of the new attitudes and you can guarantee you'll get problems
lol, getting visions of people in the 'what did i just say' state trying to cope with everyday situations !
Buying a can of drink
'that'll be 49 pence please'
*can't find money*
*does so after a while*
'how much is it?'
'49 pence'
'what for 20 fags ?'
'no sir for that can of pepsi'
'what my can of pepsi ?'
'yes'
'nice, how much?'
'49 pence'
*seems to of lost money again in the confusion*
*wanders off confused*
*thinks i've forgotten something*
*goes back for those 20 fags at a bargain 49 pence*
and so on !
Who, me? *innocent grin* <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
Well, it worked, and its always fun to argue. <IMG alt="image" SRC="tongue.gif" border="0"> If ya don't mind I think I'll carry on with the anti-drugs view... keeps things lively <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
Sorry if i'm a lil' harsh on some points, its all in good humour. <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
J:
But taking E is a risk which you don't need to take. Going to work needs to be done to make money, to survive. As it has been said in a thread in anything goes, the meaning of life is to survive and reproduce. Taking E is an unneccersary risk and therefore against the very meaning of life. Against every instinct a sensible human being should have!
And its all fake! its not a moment when anything you imagine is possible. Its a point where you imagine that anything is possible. And that can be very dangerous.
Skive: (taking a break from arguing)
Its a good attitude to have. <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
J:
Hehe, i know, i'm one of the most loved up mofo's around <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
(Back to arguing)
People have said that no one they know has stolen for the softer drugs, but the fact remains that there are people out there who do. I've been approached by kids no older than 16 asking to buy K, and they sure as hell looked like they'd commitd some crimes in their time. Decriminalising it would stop most of the drug crimes, but decriminilsing murder would stop the murdering crimes.
Skive:
I know someone caught with 30, got 18 months. So in 18 months he could be out again pushing drugs onto little kids, ruining their mental growth. I say make the penalties harsher.
eb:
Exactly! If E was legalised a lot more people would take it. With education or not, this would mean more deaths. Also there would be more (i'm sure ya know the sort of people i'm talking about) dickheads taking it, which would increase the amount of drug crime other than dealing/taking.
I'll be bakc. Its bed time. <IMG alt="image" SRC="tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
But how could the government justify legalisng a class a drug and make heavier charges for a class b drug ? isn't ket class c ? that would mean admitting they are wrong, unlikely. Should it be a 'balancing act' ? I think the fact that e and weed are the most popular would make it easier for the government to do it, but you can't exclude those drugs classified lower than e. *starts to change his mind mid-sentence* well maybe, if they based re-classification on safety ? but i can't see it happening in practice
what criteria would everyone like to see the government use to re classify drugs ? safety? availability ? likely hood to incite further violence etc ? addictivness ? cost ? public opinion ? all of these ?
Hehe, the personal experiences of going into a shop and just staring at the display for minutes on end, before thinking 'oh, shit. shop. yea. buy stuff.'
I remember wandering into a 24hr garage to but baccy, wandering over to the magazines getting a porno and sitting in the middle of the floor reading it as people wandered around, it such things you couldn't have widespread though all the time , it can't be good for you at the end of the day ?
Is it that simple ? imagine if they made pills legal for 3 years then changed there mind ? whom would stop taking them under that circumstances ? they would only get one shot at it, so it would have to be right, and for that reason they would be ultra cautious, which is in fact probably the current situation, they do review the classification i assume, but perhaps they are to afraid to fiddle with them
in case they cock it up ?
Right folks i'm going to the land of nod, i hope this thread is still going strong tomorrow, so many juicy issues !
I'm sure this smilie has just come up of its first pill <IMG alt="image" SRC="eek.gif" border="0">
I'm sure this on has just come down <IMG alt="image" SRC="frown.gif" border="0">
This one is high and lovin it <IMG alt="image" SRC="cool.gif" border="0">
So is this one <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
This one bought asprin <IMG alt="image" SRC="mad.gif" border="0">
This is waiting to come up for the first time <IMG alt="image" SRC="confused.gif" border="0">
This one just dehydrated and died seconds after this picture was taken <IMG alt="image" SRC="redface.gif" border="0"> rip
This one is just pissed <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
But 80% of the people my dad deals with are there to steal for a drugs habit, something a lot harder than alcohol.
As for other cities having problems, I'm not saying they don't, however you cannot deny that they are nowhere near as bad as the problems in space, the fact we have armed police is proof of that.
The fact that joyriders don't shoot at each other before they steal cars means there is a weeeeee problem with that as well.
The fact is that drugs fuck with your head whether you like it or not, and whether you see it or not. I've heard a lot of people here say 'I took E and suddenly realised that drugs are not that bad'. Drugs are exactly the sae as what they were before, its just that now your brain tells you they are fine because it wants more. Every drug has addictive qualities to it. Ok, so weed may not be physically addictive, but people do get dependant on it, and can get seriously aggitated if they don't get their hit.
Every druggy, user or abuser, is an outcast from the general society. Check the thread about how people feel 'better' than the rest. That its made them spiritually better, and that people who don't take drugs can't hold the same level of understanding. What complete arragont crap! That is, again, just the drugs telling you this... your mind is not in its right state, and if anything it is people who don't take drugs that have a better level of understanding about life, because they see life as what it actually is, instead of your hippy bullshit 'peace man' drugged up view of things.
The cost of drugs is a lot more than £5 a pill. Its £5 plus the loss of memeory, plus the eventual left out feeling when you realise that you are not the same as most humans (bad thing), plus the mental disorders you will have in 20 years, plus the risk factors of being caught, plus the risk factors of a bad experience, the shitty comedown, the apathy, the blindness, the bad image.... Thats pretty damn expensive.
I've found myself lying on the dance floor in the brixton academy, unable to stand, feeling the music going through my body thinking it was going to kill me. Thinking that all the people around me were going to kill me. I've been in a club watching a friend of mine having a fit, and feeling sure that he was going to die, right there next to me, and me not being able to do a thing about it. I've had friends K-hole and go to hospital, I know people who have been arrested and put away because of drugs, people who have lost their jobs, dropped out of college, just done that one extra pill which turns them into someone else, someone I don't really wanna know. I would imagine that most of you have had various similar experiences.... how many warnings do you need?
I split this into 2 sections so I could refer to them seperatly. Isn't there a possibility that the difference between drug use and drug abuse is so slight that it is not worth mentioning. Whenever you drop a pill you are abusing your body. Whenever you toke a spliff, you are abusing your brain, and your memory. Whenever you go clubbing the tremendous strain on your heart is abuse. So drug abuse is abusing drugs, and drug use isn't. But drug use is abusing your body and mind.
As for the second part... I would imagine that most drug abusers out there, most people who have died, or become horribly addicted said exactly the same thing when they started out. I used to say I'd never smoke. Then I said I'd never take E. Now I say I'll never take heroin... anyone here who has tried to quit smoking may know what its like to go and buy a pack of cigs without even realising you're doing it. And most of you will know that its a very different mind in your head when you say 'i'll never take this' as to when someone says 'do you want some of this?'
Clearly a large percentage of crime is linked to drug use, this has been seen time and time again. But before anyone can categorically say that 'drugs=crime', you've got to look at the kind of drugs that people are talking about. Crack and heroin undoubtably lead to crime. Fine, in that sense drug addiction can only be seen as detrimental to society.
But what about E? (I know lots of people here take speed, coke, draw etc but they don't seem to have as bit an influence on our opinions as e). The mixmag survey showed over 1.5 million people taking e every week and, more or less, surviving the experience. The majority are recreational user, who go clubbing on the weekend, enjoy the effects of the (very cheap)drug and are generally fit to work and contribute to society by monday morning. People on e are generally less aggressive and violent than people who are drinking. It would seem that the only social problem with e is that drug dealers/yardies or whatever have/do use guns and violence to sort out their business.
And the simplest and most effective way to deal with that problem would be to decriminalise ecstasy and have registered government-controlled suppliers. You can then undercut the illegal dealers and make the pills safer to boot. What else is there to do? No-one is going to stop using e, so nothing is going to change until the gvmt is brave enough to change their policy.