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Have we won ?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry, i missed the last 2 pages of the thread! duh!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DepRaved:
    <STRONG>sorry, i missed the last 2 pages of the thread! duh!</STRONG>

    I think such careless blunders can only be put down to drug use. And this is thursday! <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="tongue.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    shit, it's thursday? What happened to sun/mon/tues/wed?
    last time i looked it was sat night <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Mindless all the way:
    <STRONG>

    Isn't there a possibility that the difference between drug use and drug abuse is so slight that it is not worth mentioning.

    But drug use is abusing your body and mind.

    As for the second part... I would imagine that most drug abusers out there, most people who have died, or become horribly addicted said exactly the same thing when they started out. I used to say I'd never smoke. Then I said I'd never take E. Now I say I'll never take heroin... </STRONG>

    I think there is a mich larger difference between drug use and abuse. At present i take perhaps 3 pills every 2/3 weeks, now i know people who take 12 in one weeknd every weekend for a month. There is a clear difference and is suspect there is a clear difference in the likelyhood of negative long term effects. Drug abusers are always thinking of there next drug adventure, they take them at every available chance, they can't say no, they spend more than they can afford, they lose friends, jobs, homes etc etc.... Its like a weekend binge drinker and an alcoholic, neither are doing themseleves much good, but the alcoholic is clearly in a bigger mess.

    As for heroin, very very few go on from pills to heroin, its like a set of stairs i suppose, alcohol been the first step, weed 2nd and so on, different people choose to stop at a different level, i can't see why people try heroin ? its just beyond me, same as crack, i've gone a year since starting on pills without trying anything else, i'm still not ready to try anything else and only when i feel i am will i try it, if ever. Its about self control and discipline, both of which are difficult to maintain when on drugs, so you must sort your head out beforehand ! I at present believe i have, but i'm aware that it could change
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere:
    <STRONG>The fact that joyriders don't shoot at each other before they steal cars means there is a weeeeee problem with that as well.</STRONG>


    Whowhere its nice to see you on here mate, the trouble is though your joyrider may go out in a car and kill somebody ? as could a mugger, somebody committing assult, burglars take peoples property, fraud, murder, manslaughter, gbh, abh, they all have victims, if i drop the odd pill there is no victim, and self harm is milder suicide and thats legal. 80% is about a true figure, legalise softer drugs and it would be remove minor drug offences so say your at 60% who are addicts feeding there habit, its unfair to lump all drug related crime together, its like lumping all motoring offences together and not distingushing between speeding and drink driving
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by eb:
    <STRONG>

    I think there is a mich larger difference between drug use and abuse. At present i take perhaps 3 pills every 2/3 weeks, now i know people who take 12 in one weeknd every weekend for a month. There is a clear difference

    i can't see why people try heroin ? </STRONG>

    But, ya know, there are people out there who take 12 a weekend every weekend and yet will still say that they are not an abuser, and are not addicted. Its often hard to tell when you are the person judging.

    You can't see why people try heroin.... curiosity, I would say. I used not to be able to see why people took pills or k. I used to be against K, I knew nothing about it, good or bad apart from thelegend that it was horse tranquiliser. (that legand is false, by the way.) It didn't take someone very long to get me to try it. Now just imagine if the same thing happened with heroin. I know that heroin is a fairly big step up from the others, but what if it was offered to you in a smokable form? Injection is the main thing that turns people off, but you can smoke it. If someone passed any of you a lil' to smoke, would none of you be in the least bit curious?

    Some people will be, even if they don't know it themselves, many won't. But those who are tempted and do try it... suddenly they could be falling down the other side of the stairs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Mindless all the way:
    <STRONG>
    The cost of drugs is a lot more than £5 a pill. Its £5 plus the loss of memeory, plus the eventual left out feeling when you realise that you are not the same as most humans (bad thing), plus the mental disorders you will have in 20 years, plus the risk factors of being caught, plus the risk factors of a bad experience, the shitty comedown, the apathy, the blindness, the bad image.... Thats pretty damn expensive.

    .... how many warnings do you need?</STRONG>

    I absolutely agree with you on this one-on a personal level i think it is dangerous not to have an aggressively cynical veiwpoint on your own drug use.

    Drugs do feel good, that's the idea. I personally think that the euphoric 'this could change the world' feelings wears off quite quickly-i have been taking E for almost a year and I have stopped assuming that e is this amazing cure for all of society's evils. I take it, I feel good and chatty and loved up, i can dance and stay awake longer, and then I go to sleep. I know that I will pay for the weekend with 3 days of depression, but I accept the price. I ]am worried about the future implications of taking e, and of getting caught, and of getting into other drugs, but until my fear is greater than my desire to take that pill, I'm going to keep doing it. Sometimes I think that I'll never be able to say no, but then again I think about a time when I'll have a family and responsibilities and I do believe that the artificial high just won't be as appealing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by eb:
    <STRONG>
    if i drop the odd pill there is no victim,</STRONG>

    Eb, for a minute, imagine you are your mother. You love your son, and you've done your best to raise him well. (I don't know about your family relations, and I hope I'm not putting my foot in it, but this would be the case with most mothers). One day you get that call from the hospital. How would you feel? What would you think of the bastard who sold your son that pill? His friends who encouraged it, and the millions of kids who go out and risk their lives like your son did?

    Think how your friends would feel... as I said before, one of my friends nearly died, and it was the worst feeling I have ever felt.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DepRaved:
    <STRONG>

    I am worried about the future implications of taking e, and of getting caught, and of getting into other drugs, but until my fear is greater than my desire to take that pill, I'm going to keep doing it. </STRONG>

    The problem is that in a lot of cases that fear won't become too great until you have already tried that other drug, or got addicted to this substance, or started selling these pills, or suddenly realise you're in the back of a polce car on route to 4 years in prison and you still can't stop gurning.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i can't argue with your logic-but i'm not ruled by my head when I want to get fucked-i just want the feeling. i think that basically i am not too worried about the effect on my long term health or the possibility of getting a bad pill and going to hospital. Like you said to eb-if I imagined that I was in my mothers position, i am confident enough that it won't be me in hospital to justify it to myself that it's not hurting anyone if I take the pill. But that's always the prob-i don't know if it's my rational head saying that or if it's my body convincing me that it's ok. because the e affects my mind and emotions, there suddenly is no line between the rational and the addiction. what made you carry on taking pills even after you saw your friend go to hospital?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is basically no logical reason why drugs should be legalised. Why isn't the drug board filled with people who haven't tried drugs but think that it should be legalised? People come here becasue they have taken a drug, enjoyed it, and want to relive their experiences by talking about drugs. I think that would be very difficult for anyone to stand up and logically justify the legalisation of drugs in the kind of way that the government would understand. But if every MP was given a pill you can guarantee that they'd be legalised...

    If I'm being honest I don't really care about the gun fights and the gangs and the burglaries and the violence-i just know that I can feel amazng if i take this drug, and it would be a lot easier to take it if it were legal. Even if it's not, there's no problem getting it, I don't see any of the nasty things that go on in order to get my pill.

    Before J tries to kill me, I know that there are lots of good reasons why drugs should be decriminalised now, in the current socail situation. It's a case of damage limitaion now, because everyone's doing it so why shouldn't we try to make it safer and regulated (and taxable)? But I don't think that anyone here would care so much about drug legalisation if they didn't take drugs. Why would you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DepRaved:
    <STRONG>what made you carry on taking pills even after you saw your friend go to hospital?</STRONG>


    I should make it clear that I do not fully agree with everything I've been saying in this thread. Eb asked for an argument, so I pretended to be anti-drugs for a bit. I am a regular user, so I'm in a position to argue against them knowing what the good things are, which most anti-drugs people aren't. I think its important when taking drugs to know what you are doing. I know how every drug I take works, I know what the effects are, I know why they make me feel like they do, and I know what can go wrong.

    After what happened to my friend I would lie awake at night, with the image firmly plastered in my mind. I was forced to consider every aspect of what I do. I have thought about every argument I have used in this thread, and justifyed myself. I continue to take pills because I know that the risk is small enough to warrent what they do. I'm always as careful as possible, and I always go with people and we look out for each other.

    Ecstasy has done a lot of good things for me. There is a common argument that E causes depression. This time last year I was suffering from very severe depression. It was my clubbing life, and the people I met clubbing that ended that. I don't have 3 days of feeling shit after I pill. I spend the time feeling happy, reliving memories in my head, appriciating everything I have in my life that I wouldn't if it wasn't for E. I think that if I had continued to be that depressed I wouldn't be here today.

    The risk of getting caught does worry me, so I hide my drugs very well, and when going to clubs with tight securty I avoid doing things which have to be snorted, and therefore involve a lengthy process in a toilet cubicle. I think that the penalties for E should be greatly reduced.

    Also, in relation to long term effects, to quote a song which I can't remember the name of "I'm sick of not living to stay alive".
    I would rather die at 50 having led the life I'm leading than die at 80 having spent my glory years staying safe.

    The clubbing culture, the ecstasy culture, is IMO undeniably a friendlier less aggressive one than the drinking culture. Its also less dangerous.

    So after my friend went to hospital (incidently, he has stopped all drugs, bar weed) I was left with images and feeling that I can't forget. But they don't outweigh the images and feelings I don't want to forget.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But I don't think that anyone here would care so much about drug legalisation if they didn't take drugs. Why would you?

    Well, obviously not, but in the same way if nobody liked animals they wouldn't care about hunting bans. The fac is there are a lot of people out there who do care about drugs and therefore it is a matter which must be addressed.

    Originally posted by DepRaved:
    <STRONG>I think that would be very difficult for anyone to stand up and logically justify the legalisation of drugs in the kind of way that the government would understand. </STRONG>

    *Stands up*
    Firstly, I don't think it should be legalised. I think that there would be many benefits from decriminalising ecstasy though. It is a drug which gives the user more energy, and releases steratonin into the body, a natural chemical which makes the user feel 'loved up'. The death rates for the drugs are said to be about 26 a year at the moment. There is no evidence of any serious long term side effects of the drug.

    It is going to be impossible to remove ecstasy from society, I htink that can be taken as granted. So surely the best approach to take would be to make it as safe as possible for users. Of all the deaths none are caused by the actual chemical mdma. They are caused by other agents in the pills, or by heatstroke or drinking too much water. By decriminalising it the quality of the drugs been taken could be regulated and a better form of education would reduce the death rate of non-knowledgable people not drinking properly. By keeping it illegal, the death rate is only going to go up.

    I won't go into the debate about taxes on it, this is an obvious financial benefit to the government.

    To class it the same as heroin is such a wildy naive thing to do that it makes you wonder how knowlegable the people who make the laws really are. Taking E is a victimless crime, it is not a drug which people comit theft to buy any more than alcohol is. (Its also cheaper). The police have said themselves that to decriminalise it wuld be benificial. Think of the two scenarios. A club emptying out with 2000 pissed people, starting fights, driving home, and causing general disruption. Then consider a club emptying of 2000 people who have been on E. They are either loved up, and therefore considerate, or comeing down and trying to take up as little space as possible and to be left alone.

    I will rest my case there for now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Mindless all the way:
    <STRONG>

    Taking E is a victimless crime.</STRONG>

    Mindless think of your mum............

    I have to say one of my main regrets, even the first time i was on e, was the fact i felt i was letting my mum down. I still think of this and there are times i consider explaing to her about my e 'habit' and to justify it to her, but it simply can't be done <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0"> I think my mum would be more disappointed if i died friday whilst on e than if i'd had too much to drink, why this is i don't know.

    This thread has been intresting, looking back over it, the arguments for it remaining legal are obvious ! but still i think we all agree that when all said and done it should be decriminlised. The unfortunate thing is we won't see it in out pillin lives, maybe it'll be reclassified but not decriminlised, i think it will perhaps in 30 years, but i won't be taking them then, i have always said if havn't stopped by my stag night then that will be the right time, life has to move on at that point, once responsibilities are a factor you can't be selfish in your actions.

    Just to answer to your heroin theory mindless, no i wouldn't have a little smoke of heroin to satisfy curiosity (sp?) i just wouldn't, thats a step beyond me - to me drugs are a bit of fun on a weekend nothing more.

    In conclusion erm, pills are good, or are they ?

    <IMG alt="image" SRC="confused.gif" border="0">

    tell you what i'll have a definitive answer next time i'm in the world of happy folk <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is a very interesting debate, one me and my friends have talked about for ages. Personally, more needs to be done in research. Personally, I feel a lot better after reading the Mixmag survey, something I recommend you all to read. 18 ways to make drug-taking safer is all a novice like me needs to know. This is what pisses me off, the fact that our govt are misleading us. If I had not taken my first E with a lot of people, I would swear I would have taken more water. Isn't that what Betts did? I am worried about Spinks. Basically, I think that a drug that is certainly no more dangerous than Alcohol, should be legalised, or decriminalised. Then, the over stretched Police could tackle crimes that really matter. 80% of crime is drug related? Yeah, how much is that related to E? Those who take coke, crack or heroin are very sad people. Those who take E simply want to have fun. As long as we all control this, I am sure it is not so bad. why should I feel guilty about flooding my brain with Seretotin? Hardly the crime of the century. Education would cut the deaths to a minimum, not overdramatising the whole issue that never seems to be debated by those who really count.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Woolly:
    <STRONG>Those who take coke, crack or heroin are very sad people. </STRONG>

    I'm gonna have to say summink about this point. I know a few people who sometimes take coke, some who have done it quite a lot, and they aren't sad people. Its a step up maybe, but when you say that you are as wrong as when someone who doesn't take anything says 'those who take E are very sad people'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe no-one else is following this thread anymore, but WTF.....

    WhoWhere, it ain't just Nottingham that has armed police, when I was living in Liverpool you could see armed police in squad cars all the time, unless you mean armed police on foot.

    I am also willing to put my hand up and say I've tried heroin (smoked, not injected). For any that may be curious, it's shit. It made me itch, feel like I was gonna puke for a few hours and generally blanked my mind. It's a true narcotic, no positive effects unless you're hooked. As for why I tried it, well, it was a low point in my life, I was living nearly 24/7 on a variety of other drugs and thought "Why not??". But FUCK IT!! even at the lowest point in my life I knew that heroin wasn't worth it.

    I'm also willing to concede that I am hooked on weed, I smoke it just about every day at least once. In the same way that someone comes home from the office after a hard day and has a glass of whisky/wine, that's what I do with my very old friend Mary-Jane. It does have side effects, certain bits of my memory seem to have disappeared, but I can still hold coherent conversations without resorting to monosyllabic answers.

    I think that's the big issue with drugs, what goes up must come down. Getting high is easy, but dealing with the side effects is hellishly complex sometimes.

    As for decriminalisation, I don't think the original reasons for making weed illegal would cut the mustard these days, and the law is supposed to be flexible. Certainly with weed the law should be changed, with other drugs I'd like to see an independant review of their side-effects before any changes were made. (Who'd volunteer for those tests than?? <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> ) As it is, I think the government is beginning to make very slow moves that way anyway. Weed is one of those "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" subjects, everyone knows about it, but there's no real vocal support. As a case in point, homosexuality used to be illegal, but now attitudes are changing fast (in law if not in the minds of idiots). The same change of attitude could become a reality for some drugs too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well i'm preparing for a night out, i'm armed and ready for a <IMG alt="image" SRC="cool.gif" border="0"> night out, i'm looking forward to it, its been a shit week and now i'm happy within myself, that can't be bad - when talking of health stuff people always forget stress and depression a
    they cause heart attacks ets as readily as anything else - my basic conclusion, if your happy fuck it, your a long time dead, nor do you know when you'll die, try as hard to live a healthy life and get hit by a bus ? no thank you, live a mad life and hit by a bus ? no thank you but i know which i'd take if push came to shove, enjoy your weekends folks, superstar dj here we go..............................
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've been at work all week and I need to have a good time, gotta have a dance and get things off my mind.

    I'm planning a night out right now, my mates got 50 pills (don't know if I'll bosh on tonite though) and a bag full of weed. So it's off down the pub before I venture into the land of happy gurning faces. <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by 'Skive:
    <STRONG>I've been at work all week and I need to have a good time, gotta have a dance and get things off my mind.
    </STRONG>

    I've been working all week, but can't go out till next weekend. However, had such a good one last weekend, that the happy vibes live on. And I think its only wise to have plenty of weeks off. If less fun. <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellooooooooooo, well here i am high as a kite and guess what i've developed a theory on this thread. Everytime you drop a pill you are prepeared to accept that you will come down, its a bad end to a good time, but never the less you are happy to pay the price, well develope that to a whole pill lifetime - its kind of the same thing ???????? you drop pills etc alot now, knowing full well that later you'll regret it 'in the morning' e.g later in life. You with me ? I don't want to talk shit as i'm aware i'll be here soon and i'll read this thread in shame, but if you read the basicz of this thread it obvious that a lifes pillin is no different to one pill, you have an amazing start, you level out, you contemplate the future, you come down, you pay the price ! and for now i'll accept the future as a price of how i feel now

    Lets go fuckin mental !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Strong in Love by Chicane is a tune !!!!!!!!!!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by eb:
    <STRONG>its a bad end to a good time, but never the less you are happy to pay the price, </STRONG>

    But when actually coming down you are a lot les happy to do so. No one here ever had the thought 'ugh, never again, its not worth it' on a comedown (human traffic stylie) but 3 days later changed your mind? Imagine if the comedown never ended.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Mindless all the way:
    <STRONG>

    But when actually coming down you are a lot les happy to do so. No one here ever had the thought 'ugh, never again, its not worth it' on a comedown (human traffic stylie) but 3 days later changed your mind? Imagine if the comedown never ended.</STRONG>


    But getting old is one big comedown from adult years anyway, i suppose you MAY encourage the process but then we would all be willing to accept a harsher come down for a better high. Those of us on here posess a hint of a risky personality from the nature of drug use in the first place, when you play with fire you could get burnt, especially when you aren't careful - yet the whole 'to hell with the consequences' attitude is evident. That ever lasting comedown is something we just accept as a possibility, and maybe a worthwhile consequence ? Funnily enough i have come close to that never again decision, not because of the comedown, but because when i'm wrecked i fear for my health, future and the image i portray to others, but then that little voice re assures me again and off i go ! I'm pleased it does, been wrecked is no state to make an evaluated sensible decision, but then the need to get high is non-existent at that point
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I like your sig by the way, Eb..... too true.

    *Random, jus woke up comment*
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