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Lying on your CV?

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  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,182 Skive's The Limit
    No you don't. Because you didn't deserve it in the first place. Simple as.

    Employers don't employ people on the basis of whether they deserve it - they employ people who they think can do a good job. I told them I could and then I proved it.

    Some of you are complaining this isn't fair - and you're right it isn't. So wisen up and don't be so naive.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    Employers don't employ people on the basis of whether they deserve it - they employ people who they think can do a good job. I told them I could and then I proved it.

    Some of you are complaining this isn't fair - and you're right it isn't. So wisen up and don't be so naive.


    The employer basis the decision on a couple of things - your cv, and how you do in the interview. Now, someone who lies on the CV then has the opportunity to interview that, in truth, they should not have. It sounds as if you were then fortunate enough to have an interviewer who did not test you too hard, so be it, you got the job.

    That doesn't mean you deserved it, because, essentially, if you lied to get the interview in the first place then you deserved nothing. Maybe you can do the job now, maybe you do a shit job, who knows? Maybe someone with the right qualifications or experience would do the job a lot better than you. Noone will ever know of course because you have it, they are just possibilites.

    It's not being naive to say that you shouldn't alter your CV to pretend that you're something you are not. You are being fraudulent. It seems for you that that is acceptable, I for one would say that it isn't, but then I would also like to think that I would employ the best person for a job.

    I'd just have to hope that when I give the interview that "the best person" doesn't get missed from my selection of candidates because someone else lied about their skills.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if that pretty piece of paper is all that is barring the best candidate for the job from applying then something is wrong.

    But that goes back to what I have said from the start. You're saying it from the point of view that someone is entitled to lie because they think that they are the best person. But, whilst that person is lieing, someone else with the real skills might have to be missed from the interview level.

    Then what has happened is that the piece of paper has barred the best candidate, but it's barred the one who really was the best candidate, and not the one who is lying to be the best of those that get to interview.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not saying someone who lies is the best person for the job. I'm saying that qualifications do not make the best person for the job. If someone does not have the requisite skills then they will be found out pretty damn quick. If they don't then they actually do know their stuff and it was not a mistake to employ them.

    Of course it wasn't, if they can do the job then they have been a reasonable candidate. (Unless the qualification is one that is needed for eg a doctor, teacher or other responsible position that passes on the knowledge, that's a whole different kettle of fish.)

    However, that doesn't excuse the fact that, by lying, they could easily be stopping a better person from getting the job.

    That's (some of) the problem with it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How are they stopping a better candidate from getting it? If the employer chooses them over a better candidate then it is the employer's judgement that needs to be called into question.

    Because at the start of the process all you have is the bits of paper. Clearly you are going to pick the most suitable looking bits of paper. If one of them is a tissue of lies then that lieing person can nudge out someone who really does have the knowledge / skills rather than just being a blagger.

    Of course, they then might get found out at interview, which has then wasted everyone's time, or they could go on to do an average job, most probably a poorer job than the person that really did have the quals would have done.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think there's much point taking this any further because it's obvious that we both disagree with each other :)

    Ok.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,182 Skive's The Limit
    Mist wrote:
    Of course, they then might get found out at interview, which has then wasted everyone's time, or they could go on to do an average job, most probably a poorer job than the person that really did have the quals would have done.

    I didn't even have an interview as such. My mate who was already an Engineer recomended my for the job and then told me what my boss would want to hear. My 'interview' took place on the phone.
    Mist wrote:
    they could go on to do an average job, most probably a poorer job than the person that really did have the quals would have done.

    How the fuck can you tell that? If I didn't do a good job I'd be out of one - simple as. And I certainly wouldn't have got my £400 bonus last month.

    At the end of the day I look out for myself.
    If a perfect job opertunity arose, you knew you could do it depsite not having the same experience as another applicant would you not be prepared to lie a little? You'd be a mug if you didn't.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think this argument is split between the people that think that the grades are what matters, and the people that think the ability to do it does. I think if you can do the job as well as somebody else, and have a couple of lies on your CV, then why the fuck not? Without trying to reitterate all the other arguments, yes you put the work in, yes you got the grades, but if somebody has the ability to do the job then they obviously are well enough qualified to do it without the piece of paper that says you can. After all, some people can fully understand the subject yet fuck the exam, or not understand the subject yet waltz through the exam.

    If someone who lies on their CV can't do the job, then they'll be sacked during their probationary period. If they can, then fair play to them. Doesn't make any of the other applicants with the pieces of paper any better ;o
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Doofay wrote:
    I think this argument is split between the people that think that the grades are what matters, and the people that think the ability to do it does.
    Not really. It's about whether you can justify making false claims about yourself in order to get a job that you think you are entitled to, and qualified for.
    I think if you can do the job as well as somebody else, and have a couple of lies on your CV, then why the fuck not?
    Because it is then you as the potential employee deciding who is best for the job and not the employer. Based on lies.

    I'm going to have to side with those who would not accept liars as employees.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Not really. It's about whether you can justify making false claims about yourself in order to get a job that you think you are entitled to, and qualified for.

    Because it is then you as the potential employee deciding who is best for the job and not the employer. Based on lies.

    I'm going to have to side with those who would not accept liars as employees.

    Exactly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The attitudes i'm seeing here piss me right the fuck off. I left school myself with fuck all but 2 GCSE c's in science. Did i piss and moan that it was unfair? That i should have got this result and that? No i gritted my teeth, got a shitty night job washing dishes and WORKED for the qualifications i needed to get into my chosen profession. I worked hard for 5 years. Listening to some of you bastards actually gloating you got jobs you didn't work for or deserve is fucking sickening and even worse an convicted criminal gloating that he doesn't declare that. People like you make a dedicated athiest like me hope there is a god, because then you'll have to face your maker some day and then we'd see if you're so cocky.

    Sorry mate but the world of work is dog-eat-dog and we need to do whatever we can go ensure employment. Don't blame people like me, blame the employers for establishing unrealistic and unreasonable standards.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,182 Skive's The Limit
    Kentish wrote:
    Not really. It's about whether you can justify making false claims about yourself in order to get a job that you think you are entitled to, and qualified for.

    It's not about going for the job you think you're 'entitiled' to, it's about going for what you want. And the only thing I have to justify is whether or not I can do the job, and I think I have proved I can.

    What matters to me is that I got the job. Selfish? Yes!
    ..but as I said your a mug if you can let an opertunity go like that.
    If I can learn and do the job without the right qualifications, then it's a bloody good thing I didn't waste my time at Uni.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Not really. It's about whether you can justify making false claims about yourself in order to get a job that you think you are entitled to, and qualified for.


    Because it is then you as the potential employee deciding who is best for the job and not the employer. Based on lies.

    I'm going to have to side with those who would not accept liars as employees.

    When you put it that way, yes you're right.

    But when you take it out of the context of morals and into the context of real life, anybody who says they'd rather apply for a £40,000 a year job that they knew they had enough qualifications to get yet they wouldn't enjoy over a £100,000 a year job they knew they could get with a bit of tweaking is either a liar, or completely fucking stupid.

    Oh, and you're a liar too. As is just about everybody in existance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Doofay wrote:
    But when you take it out of the context of morals and into the context of real life, anybody who says they'd rather apply for a £40,000 a year job that they knew they had enough qualifications to get yet they wouldn't enjoy over a £100,000 a year job they knew they could get with a bit of tweaking is either a liar, or completely fucking stupid.

    again, it depends what you mean by tweaking.

    exaggerating experience is one thing. i mean, if you worked in a shop, and you occasionally had to cash up, i wouldn't have a problem with someone saying they had 'financial responsibility within the company'. making menial tasks sound important and exciting is the whole point of a CV.

    but if you never worked in the shop in the first place, and you say you were the assistant manager, you're out of order. if you don't have your maths and english GCSE, and you pretend you have Bs to get a job, you're out of order. whether you can do the job or not is beside the point. i think i could teach english, but i'm not about to pretend i have a PGCE and 3 years experience in order to get it. if that makes me an idiot, then i'm happy being an idiot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kaffrin wrote:
    again, it depends what you mean by tweaking.

    exaggerating experience is one thing. i mean, if you worked in a shop, and you occasionally had to cash up, i wouldn't have a problem with someone saying they had 'financial responsibility within the company'. making menial tasks sound important and exciting is the whole point of a CV.

    but if you never worked in the shop in the first place, and you say you were the assistant manager, you're out of order. if you don't have your maths and english GCSE, and you pretend you have Bs to get a job, you're out of order. whether you can do the job or not is beside the point. i think i could teach english, but i'm not about to pretend i have a PGCE and 3 years experience in order to get it. if that makes me an idiot, then i'm happy being an idiot.

    Aye. I've not personally lied on a CV, but i think bending the truth slightly - fo instance, i never did any car audio fits at Halfords, but saying i had experience working with car audio wouldn't be bad - seeing as i did sell the things and arrange the fits :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Doofay wrote:
    Aye. I've not personally lied on a CV, but i think bending the truth slightly - fo instance, i never did any car audio fits at Halfords, but saying i had experience working with car audio wouldn't be bad - seeing as i did sell the things and arrange the fits :p

    well that's just common sense ;)

    you did have experience working with car audio. you were working, the car audio was there, you sold some. that's not lying at all, that's creatively telling the truth. same way my 2 week filing job becomes 'organisation and administrative experience within a multinational company'. if you had said, 'i have experience fitting car audio', then that would be lying.

    you'd be amazed how good i made mr. k's halfords experience sound, and it was all the truth. just cleverly worded, with a few buzzwords chucked in to excite them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The attitudes i'm seeing here piss me right the fuck off. I left school myself with fuck all but 2 GCSE c's in science. Did i piss and moan that it was unfair? That i should have got this result and that? No i gritted my teeth, got a shitty night job washing dishes and WORKED for the qualifications i needed to get into my chosen profession. I worked hard for 5 years. Listening to some of you bastards actually gloating you got jobs you didn't work for or deserve is fucking sickening and even worse an convicted criminal gloating that he doesn't declare that. People like you make a dedicated athiest like me hope there is a god, because then you'll have to face your maker some day and then we'd see if you're so cocky.

    :heart:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote:
    Anyway, how am I to afford to live, pay off £30,000 worth debts and fund evening classes without a well paid job? I couldn't do it I assure you.
    Sadly, it does seem that circumstances increasingly mean people have no choice but to lie. Should I go to university in future, I may well have to resort to these tactics. I don't condone what you're doing, but I can't condemn you for it either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote:

    Instead I'll lie on my CV now stating the grades I predict for myself, then I'll do the exam later on when I've made some money.

    But the fact of the matter is YOU DIDN'T GET THAT RESULT and you are not qualified to judge what tou should have got, that what exam boards are for. You think you should have got it and saying you did is dishonest to everyone including youself. Saying you are going to get it when you have the chance is pure crap. We both know you have no intention, your next excuse would be that you've made it this far with out it why get it now? Whats the wheather like in cloud cookoo land?

    At this point i would also like to point out that lying about this kind of thing is illegal as is not declaring a criminal conviction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Sadly, it does seem that circumstances increasingly mean people have no choice but to lie. Should I go to university in future, I may well have to resort to these tactics. I don't condone what you're doing, but I can't condemn you for it either.
    If you go to university though, surely you would have the qualifications like basic English, Maths and Science?

    Also, on the topic of lying on a CV-is leaving something out bad, or not? It isn't crucial, only my AS level Sociology grade, but with a D grade I don't feel particularly putting it on there to taint the rest of my A, B and C grades :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never lied about my qualifications/exam results or anything like that 'cause knowing my luck I'd probably get caught out. However I would perhaps lie a little in the 'hobbies and interests' section just to make myself sound interesting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you go to university though, surely you would have the qualifications like basic English, Maths and Science?

    Also, on the topic of lying on a CV-is leaving something out bad, or not? It isn't crucial, only my AS level Sociology grade, but with a D grade I don't feel particularly putting it on there to taint the rest of my A, B and C grades :p

    It depends on the University and the course you're doing, I got into University with a D in maths (GCSE) and a D in science (though I had good english grades).

    I wouldn't have a problem with the D in AS Sociology, a D is still a pass. IMO, it's not going to taint your other grades one bit. It will just show that you have studied one more subject and while you perhaps didn't get an A or something, you still got a grade.


    I was filling in an application form the other day and with regards to my GCSE results, I like to put the highest grades first. Though sometimes I know they like them to be in alphabetical order.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think someone applying for the same job as me lying would really annoy me and to be quite honest it would be very unfair. I have known people to do that when applying for uni, i always tell the truth my CV is never boring for the simple fact that i never sit down and have time for myself, all i do is voluntary work and help others therefore i take pictures to interviews and i can give an honest account of what i do and when. People who lie will one day be discovered the sooner the better for honest truthful citizens!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Gah, I think the point is being spectacularly missed here.

    Downright lying, such as inventing qualifications, is wrong. Small-scale lying, such as bigging up experience, or bending the facts of experience (I got this job on "office admin" experience that never fully happened) is, whilst not being acceptable, is de rigeur.

    If you don't build up your experience then you are a fool. If you don't make up little white lies in your CV then you are a fool. If you make up qualifications or serious experience then you deserve to have your legs broken.

    But someone lying isn't "preventing" anyone else from getting the job. If you have the experience and qualifications they asked for, you will be interviewed. If you don't, you won't. So to extend this, the only thing that is happening is lying under-qualified people are stopping truthful under-qualified people from getting a job, a job that they wouldn't get anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Downright lying, such as inventing qualifications, is wrong.

    Not just "wrong" but fraud too. Instant dismissal is the least of your worries.
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