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You could probably come down hard on Man of Kent for the language remark, though...
Ok I've not read the whole thread yet so bare this in mind if I repeat anything thats been said.
The way she was treated was not direct racism in the way that the staff were deliberatly treating her badly because of her culture, but she was treated with indirect racism. Not from the staff as individuals but from the hospital as a whole. Health care services need to be culturaly diverce to make their clients feel like they are being valued.
Medically speaking this woman was probably given the best treatment that the NHS could offer.
But considering that she had stated right from the start that, due to her religion and cultural belief, she could not be seen by a male docter while she was not covered she is bound to feel that she has not been valued and treated according to her individual needs.
Same with the food really, if the hospital know from past records and survays how many people on average who need halal food then they really should be catering for that. I mean there would be much more up ror about it if a person wasnt given any dinner becuase he had server alergies to wheat and there wernt enough wheat free meals to go round.
People need to be treated as individuals and looked at case by case. Just because one person is content with a certain treatment doesnt mean the other might not end up very offened.
The hospitals obligational polices have not been forfilled. And the general care value base that every docter and nurse would have studied at uni has been blatantly ignored.
Things like food could have been ordered for her and the other patiants on a week by week basis knowing that they might be needing more halal food that week.
Firstly I would say that perhaps this woman was being over-sensitive but I believe this is not uncommon during pregnancy and childbirth.
Secondly what I think she is talking about is indirect racism which is a different from direct racism. She isn't accusing people of being Nazis just being ignorant of her culture/religion and there for not realising that there is a problem being created.
Its a bit like being conservative (small c) but not being Conservative. (probably not being any clearer but hey its late:( )
that's what people are like though. you can't expect everyone to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of every other religion. it's not realistic.
that the hospital did halal meals at all shows you they were trying. it doesn't tell you what average proportion of patients on the ward would need a halal meal. it could be that there's normally only one or two. giving birth is unpredictable, it's not like you can plan. and if they always had enough for 10 halal meals, and then there was no need for it for 4 weeks, that's a lot of food wasted on an already tight budget.
if you want individually tailored care, go private. if you want it free, you have to put up with the same standard of care as the rest of us.
it's not racist, and personally i think claiming that it is is an insult to the people who looked after her.
Yeah, but that's not racism. That's shoddy bedside manner and shoddy management.
Unless you are seriously saying that the only reason why she was treated poorly was because she was Muslim?
Well she should speak the language if she lives over here, IMHO. People who can't be arsed learning it need to be given an "incentive" to.
But yes. Why is her language more worthy of having interepeters than, say, Swahili? Isn't that racial discrimination?
.
I don't even think this case is necessarily a bedside manner problem. It's true that she didn't want random men in the room, but it turned out that she needed a senior opinion and the senior doctor was a man. Tough. Otherwise we'd have to have two sets of doctors for each ward, lest a patient didn't like the one they were offered. Is being seen by a female doctor a right or good fortune?
Me thinks someone may have read more into that than was actually typed (badly, I know
I was commenting on institutional ignorance of people's needs. The lady in question was badly treated because the NHS didn't have the right food (for example), however other patients face the additional issue of not being able to speak english well enough to get a message across... or to understand what is being said to them.
Please tell me how that comment is racist Joe....
Tell me, how good is your understanding of medical terminology?
In your second language...
piss poor, but i'd better be learning sharpish, cause if i went into a polish hospital they wouldn't speak anything but polish to me.
I would agree, but are we going to have an interpreter for every single language in the known universe (including Klingon) ready and waiting in every hospital?
No, we're not. So why does this woman deserve preferential treatment?
The language issue isn't one I want to get drawn on, because basically I think that if you live in a country you should learn the language, and your unwillingness or inability to do so should not be pandered to. I wouldn't move to France or Germany and not arse myself to learn the lingo, why should it be any different for anyone else?
totally agree. as i said before, who decides which languages are worthy of a translator?
because they know that we will. or else they will cry race.
ETA: not every language, but commonly used ones certainly. Most immigrants either speak a widely used language or are educated enough to have learnt a widely used language. This woman doesn't appear to require a translator. It's not about learning the language. I agree that you should be able to communicate in the language of your country of residence. But that isn't the point. I think it's only common courtesy to offer patients the opportunity to express themselves as best they can, and if that requires a translator then so be it. No one is 'pandering' and I question your use of the word.
that happens all the time. we had to take my brother to A&E in majorca with glass in his foot and no one spoke english. we muddled through. and then when we were in barcelona, the chemist i went to didn't speak any english. i did the actions of what i wanted, we managed.
it's not ideal, and it can be a bit annoying, but as far as i'm concerned, i'm in their country, using their healthcare, so i'll take what i'm given and be grateful for it. i would never suggest that they get an english translator in for me, lest i need it. why the hell should they?
we got great care. he was seen within an hour, we pointed to the foot, the guy examined it, cleaned it up, stitched it up, pointed to the calendar so we knew when the stitches had to come out... yeah, it would have been easier if he's spoken english, but it wasn't detrimental to the standard of care.
again i ask what you have to do to be worthy of a translator. there is a huge polish and eastern european population in leeds. do they offer a translator in polish or russian in the hospitals? do they hell.
they didn't. my grandma was in hospital maybe 20 times in her life, sometimes for very extended periods, and she never got one.
she didn't mind. she had the same opinion on the matter as me. she came here as a refugee, and thought if this country were good enough to take her in, then the least she could do would be to learn the language, get a job and give something back.
by the time she was older, she spoke passable english. i guess she would have been able to tell them how she felt, where it hurt, if she was hungry... she probably never really what was wrong with her (who the hell knows the polish word for 'ovary'?) but such is life.
That's exactly it.
Perhaps a translation service should be available for healthcare, just for ease and convenience of the medical staff more than anything, but I do deeply resent seeing the Council Tax form cover in Newcastle having every language under the chuffing sun on it, and then English right at the bottom. And I resent the fact that at the two train stations in Bradford it's a case of "spot the sign in English" even more.
If people didn't get things without knowing the language they'd learn it PDQ.
yes, they would. and they did. you'll find all the post war refugees speak/spoke english, at least passably. because they had to. if you couldn't say at least 'job please, thank you' you wouldn't get one. and if you didn't have a job, you'd starve.
It is unnecessarily cruel to provide a second rate service to those who cannot communicate effectively with a doctor just because it's an effort to arrange, or worse if it irritates the sensibilities of someone who has never struggled to communicate.
(Not having a go, but this is something I'm quite passionate about)
And the Bosnians learned it quickly too, because they had to.
If people are not encouraged to learn the language, they will stay poor, and they will be dependent on benefits forever. Some people may well find it hard to pick up, but it's amazing how even the slowest person can grasp a language when they don't get any tea if they don't.