Maternity care for muslims

Former Member

Just been reading This and wondered what you thought about it.

Everyone was very polite and I can't say that I experienced any direct racism but it is still racism in a way because of the ignorance.

Is it me who is seeing things differently because I dont see how this woman was treated is racism. Food issue, its the same when I was in the meals werent what I liked so got fish and chips brought in for me.

During labour I didnt give a stuff who came in, that was the least thing on my mind.

I know it must have been different for this woman, but to bring racism into it just makes me wonder wether this is a case of blame 'racism' on everything.

Your views please

Former Member

It's not racisim, it's insensitive and inadaquate, but it's not racist.

Former Member

Originally posted by Fiend_85
It's not racisim, it's insensitive and inadaquate, but it's not racist.

But that happens to most women surely. forget about what colour/religion or whatever, its due to shortage of nurses and theres no way of changing things for ANY women till they have more nurses on wards.

I just feel that again racism is the blame, which is happens more frequently now. If theres a problem its 'racism' without even thinking about anything else.

I have this thing about male nurses examining me, I dont know why and I know it sounds stupid. I suppose its the thought of a 'young' slip of a lad doing this kind of examination. Yet if it was a doctor who had seen it all then I wouldnt give a shit lol. But during labour I wouldnt care who was there, just a case of get this baby out

Former Member

it's equality, if anything.

everyone gets what they're given.

true, they could be a little more sensitive, but i guess in hospital the main aim is to treat them. and if the baby is in distress, and the only doctor around is a male doctor, then they'll send in the male doctor, you know? probably didn't even register.

Former Member

I know, but I can understand her embarrassment, that sort of thing must be really important to her.

Former Member

i can understand her point, but comments like this are uncalled for:

Everyone was very polite and I can't say that I experienced any direct racism but it is still racism in a way because of the ignorance.

ignorance doesn't equal racism. just because i don't know anything about someone else's religion doesn't mean i don't respect it. i bet she knows chuff all about my religion, for example.

if she had told the hospital specifically about her needs, i'm sure they would have done as much as they could, but there is only so much they can do, given the staff/budget they have.

Former Member

Originally posted by kaffrin
i can understand her point, but comments like this are uncalled for:



ignorance doesn't equal racism. just because i don't know anything about someone else's religion doesn't mean i don't respect it. i bet she knows chuff all about my religion, for example.

if she had told the hospital specifically about her needs, i'm sure they would have done as much as they could, but there is only so much they can do, given the staff/budget they have.

thats what i was trying to say, but you delivered it much better than I could ever do :thumb:

Former Member

Originally posted by Fiend_85
I know, but I can understand her embarrassment, that sort of thing must be really important to her.

I get that, but i am really insensitive to cases like this, because i am not religious in anyway I think her views are very silly, if the doctors are caring for her properly, what should it matter if they are male or not?

But even though i don't understand her point, i do believe her beliefs should be respected, and the issue with meals was not right, and unless her baby was in serious danger they should have stuck to female doctors if that was her wish. I just don't think she has any good reasons for it, but that's just me.

Is it racism, I don't know, I don't even know what racism is anymore.

Former Member

and you cant be racist to a religion as such technically, well not yet anyway:rolleyes:

Former Member

Originally posted by dolly dagger
But even though i don't understand her point, i do believe her beliefs should be respected, and the issue with meals was not right

Yep, that sounds like a hospital management issue that needs sorting - if they have that many muslims on the ward (and presumably in the rest of the hospital too) they should have enough halal food. Nutrition is important.

unless her baby was in serious danger they should have stuck to female doctors if that was her wish.

That sounds like exactly what did happen. The baby developed problems, the senior obstetrician was a chap and was called in. If the consultant on call is a man, whatya gonna do?

It does appear to be a communication issue, and it works both ways. If you have views like hers you have to make it absolutely clear what you find acceptable and what not. It's difficult to second guess people's preferences, cos it might cause offence to a muslim who doesn't share her views.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
If you have views like hers you have to make it absolutely clear what you find acceptable and what not.

In all honesty though having a baby is not like other cases purely for the fact that labour can start at any time. So lets assume its during the night and there are only male doctors, if the baby is coming its coming and it aint gonna wait around is it.
So even if I made my wishes be known i.e I only want female staff, then theres NO guarantee thats gonna happen....its a fact of life and theres nowt I could do about it (especially if I was delivering in the middle of the night).

Former Member

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
In all honesty though having a baby is not like other cases purely for the fact that labour can start at any time. So lets assume its during the night and there are only male doctors, if the baby is coming its coming and it aint gonna wait around is it.
So even if I made my wishes be known i.e I only want female staff, then theres NO guarantee thats gonna happen....its a fact of life and theres nowt I could do about it (especially if I was delivering in the middle of the night).

Of course - like I say, if the consultant on call is a man, there's nowt to be done. But it sounds like she was on the post natal ward for a while too.

Former Member

Not racism, but I do understand her situation.

Former Member

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Not racism, but I do understand her situation.

yup but when people play the race card as shes done, t ruins relations mroe than stregthen them since people start thinking theres widespread abuse of race discrimination act - i think those who make stupid claims to rights, when they dont even apply should revoke that right

Former Member

Ditto the bulk of comments. It is the NHS. Callous as it might sound, she could always go private if it's such a big deal.

Former Member

Whining cow.

Yeah, it's not ideal, but why the hell should she be given special rights? The rest of us have to cope with it, so she bloody well can too. Or she can stop at home.

Former Member

Without even reding at you knoiw it is absolutely nothuing to do with racism because this is to do with religion not race.

Why people persist (often deliberately I suspect) these two issues is very strange.

Race is pre-determined

Religion is choice

The two do not have to be the same, not all Arabs are Muslims, not all whie people are Christians.

The two are not the same..................

Former Member

Also I would point out that we are very privelaged in this country to even consider having such flexibility and devotion of resources to specific problems.

What the heel would she do in a poor country, no use complaiing then, but the morality doesn't change.

Former Member

I think it's a shame that we haven't had a British Muslim on the thread to give their view. I thought the woman was clearly trying to be constructive and reasonable and don't doubt that she's well intentioned and only wants to see that the hospital improves it's service. The question I would like to ask a Muslim is whether according to Islamic teaching, which this woman claims is important to her, she should be living in a country like Britain which makes it so difficult, even impossible to observe the teachings of the Quran and The Prophet (PBUH). If Muslims historically have thought it wrong to live in Non-Muslim societies, and they have, isn't it assumed they were correct and their example is to be followed, unless expressly contradicted in the Quran or the Hadiths? I'm not saying this is so, I'm not sure, maybe someone could clarify.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kermit
Yeah, it's not ideal, but why the hell should she be given special rights? The rest of us have to cope with it, so she bloody well can too. Or she can stop at home.

But she isn't asking for special rights, she asking to have the same treatment that we would extend, or rather should extend to anyone. We certainly wouldn't carry out a tranfusion for a Witness without consent, is that special rights or is that treating the patient?

One thing that the NHS is bad at is that we treat condition but often forget that there a people attached...

That she felt unconfortable meant that she didn't get the "proper" treatment, and yes I would have questions about the Trust and their policies.

However, this wasn't racism, or relgious hatred. It was pure ignorance. For that there isn't a defence because hospitals should have policies and procedures in place for dealing with this. Having said that, the patient doesn need to specify their religion for the NHS to be able to act.

They should have Halal food available, they should have multi-faith representatives available and they should be able to call in a female team if required - although the life at stake is always the first issue.

edited to add: I thought that the most telling quote was "I had no control " which is where most people find that minor issue become major ones because they feel totally unable to influence events. Most of what the lady in question says is about not being able to influence what happened.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kermit
Whining cow.

Yeah, it's not ideal, but why the hell should she be given special rights? The rest of us have to cope with it, so she bloody well can too. Or she can stop at home.

I agree. Fuck her, the only problem I can see is the food. She should be fucking grateful she's in a country with such a good health service. I know it sounds racist but it's not. (This reply, not the link/thread)

Former Member

Originally posted by Jazza
I agree. Fuck her, the only problem I can see is the food. She should be fucking grateful she's in a country with such a good health service. I know it sounds racist but it's not. (This reply, not the link/thread)

Don't know if it's racist, but I will point out that is as much her country as yours, and as much her health service as it is yours.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
Don't know if it's racist, but I will point out that is as much her country as yours, and as much her health service as it is yours.

which is why she should be thankful

Former Member

Originally posted by Jazza
which is why she should be thankful

And you'd expect food you could eat, and wouldn't be happy if you went with your erectile dysfunction problem and ended up with the world and his wife there with you.

Maybe if you were told why they were there, you wouldn't be upset. Which I think is fair enough.

Former Member

The food complaint was fair enough, I think. And the lack of a female doctor was greatly unfortunate.

But it's no wonder the right-wingers have so much success when you get whining trollopes like this playing the race card at every opportunity. No, they weren't racist, and no, it's not "institutional" either. You were treated badly, it happens, it's not because of your race or ethnicity.

I have no time whatsoever for moaners who play the race card because they seem to think that every slight against them is because of their race.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kermit
... and no, it's not "institutional" either...

It is.

Institutional ignorance.

She's lucky that she spoeaks the language well enough. That is something where the NHS really falls down. Although I'm not sure how we can rectify that, especially at night...

Former Member

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
It is.

Institutional ignorance.

She's lucky that she spoeaks the language well enough. That is something where the NHS really falls down. Although I'm not sure how we can rectify that, especially at night...

Language line.

I'm surprised you don't have good interpreters at your place - being in the asylum capital of the UK and all.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
I'm surprised you don't have good interpreters at your place - being in the asylum capital of the UK and all.

Oh we have pages of them.

You try getting one available all night though...

The reason I say that it, supposing that you have admitted a patinet who doesn't speak very good english. Around midnight the patient wakes and wants something...

Former Member

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
She's lucky that she spoeaks the language well enough. That is something where the NHS really falls down. Although I'm not sure how we can rectify that, especially at night...

but then, how do you decide which language-speakers are worthy of translators and which aren't?

Former Member

As others have already said the woman was treated in an insensitive way that many other woman have been treated through out their pregnancy/labour. I would add that many doctors forget that the patient in front of then - man or woman - is a person, they can tend to see them as their NHS numbers. Doctors do need to be given better bedside manner' training, or perhaps a dose of common sense and consideration!!

On the other hand, I did feel that a few people replying to this thread assumed that the lady in question - perhaps due to her religion - was 'foriegn'. I'm sorry if I've read peoples views wrong, but it is a mistake to assume someones nationality from the colour of their skin/religios beliefs. Perhaps the hospital were guilty of this as well?

Former Member

Read the posts again, and I think I misinterpreted them

Can I blame the vast quantity of tia maria I have been downing? :nervous: