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'England' footballers not English?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For the third time...
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Tell me what "English" means then.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sorry I really don't understand what you mean by English as an ethnic group, English is a nationality, not an ethnicity
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think he knows what he means either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    I don't think he knows what he means either.
    i think he knows perfectly well what he means and what he's up to.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    i think he knows perfectly well what he means and what he's up to.

    I don't. I think he's just another poor fool hoodwinked by the fash.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by nckdn
    Politics and Debate, yet this is the only post to challenge my only argument, that the English are a distinct and separate ethnic group, and that the various ethnic minority groups are also distinct and separate. This viewpoint is the accepted (the only acceptable) viewpoint in the media, government, academe, the CRE and the law, in all of public life in fact. Pretty much everybody recognizes and respects ethnic diversity in Britain, so I thought it was a reasonable and not too controversial topic to debate; just why should members of other ethnic groups be playing for the 'English' football team? Despite the many posters, only BlackArab has prompted me to question myself. Four questions actually.
    1)Can you be a member of an ethnic minority group and an ethnic majority group at the same time? It seems odd, somehow. Dolly Dagger's right that sometimes we put people in boxes, maybe that's why I struggle to accept this idea.
    2)Do the members of ethnic minorities in England generally claim to be English, as BlackArab's experience suggests they do? No they don't.
    3)Did I really say that this would make them English, as BlackArab claims I did? No.
    4)Why is it unacceptable to ask why Non-English Britons are playing for an England team? I don't know.
    BlackArab had me questioning myself and my opinions. If I'm wrong about ethnicity and Englishness, why haven't the other people who expressed disagreement with my opinion explained why I am wrong. That's what this board is for.

    As I understand it, in international sport one qualifies on the basis that you qualify by nationality not by ethnic group i.e England v Russia as opposed to Anglo-Saxons v Slavs. Therefore being born in England and English, I qualify to play alongside Beckham and wear the shirt.

    However on ethnic monitoring forms, I am classed as Black British. My nationality has not changed despite the categories being different.

    That should answer question one.

    2. Young black and South Asian people are much more ambitious and optimistic than their white counterparts and feel as much a part of British culture as white people.

    source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/marketresearch/audiencegroup7.shtml

    There was another study published recently which said the same thing. The majority of ethnic minorities do see themselves as English. Whether you choose to believe this we can do nothing about.

    3. your quote: 'I think we will know when assimilation has occurred, they will identify as English' I was using this definition on re-reading it, I would suggest assimilation cannot be decided as having occured when judged by an individual. An individual can choose not to accept you as English if they wish to rightly or wrongly.

    4. Its how you ask the questions and the examples you use. I'm still trying to get my head around the Rooney/Neville's thing. If your unsure about anything you post here ask Jim V or any Mod, they will be only to happy to give advice.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    Chicken Tikka Masala anyone?

    Its taken you a long time to invite me out.......of course, 7:30, ive booked the table ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Its taken you a long time to invite me out.......of course, 7:30, ive booked the table ;)

    Must dash, two hours to get to Geordieland

    :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    Must dash, two hours to get to Geordieland

    :D

    hehehe :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Since when has "English" been an ethnic group?

    Idiot.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    Since when has "English" been an ethnic group?
    Idiot.

    I can't believe I have to defend the opinion that the English are an ethnic group. Google "ethnic english" or english (and) ethnicity. The government, CRE and serious academics back me up. I've said it's the accepted view, that there isn't really an alternative view ever expressed in any area of public life. It's recognised by law! I can't believe I'm having to write this. In England! Most of you have the same viewpoint as Kermit don't you? JimV said basically the same thing. I'm really stunned. Let's not use words if we don't know what they mean.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    English isn't an ethnic group.

    Ethnic adj.
    1. of or relating to a human group with racial, religious, and linguistic characteristics in common
    2. characteristic of another culture, esp. a peasant one;


    English is a nationality

    Nationality n.
    1. the fact of being a citizen of a particular nation
    2. a group of people of the same race;
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Ethnic: of or relating to a human group with racial, religious, and linguistic characteristics in common

    English is a nationality...a group of people of the same race;
    I think one could argue that English is an ethinicity.

    But where I seem to disagree with nckdn is that I think ethnic groups aren't fixed - that is, English is an evolving description that can change as English citizens change.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How long before we hear nckdn utter the favourite catchphrase of naziboys everywhere: "A dog born in a stable isn't a horse" or thereabouts... :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    Must dash, two hours to get to Geordieland

    :D

    why on earth are/were you headed up this part of the country :P
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MrG
    why on earth are/were you headed up this part of the country :P

    to take me for a Chicken Tikka Masala :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ahh you should come up for some pancakes some day :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    How long before we hear nckdn utter the favourite catchphrase of naziboys everywhere: "A dog born in a stable isn't a horse" or thereabouts... :rolleyes:

    He already pretty much has.

    It's the same mentality as those people who abused Amir Khan for proudly wearing both the Union Flag and the flag of Pakistan: either you are British or not, you can't be a mixture, you can't be proud of your Britishness (or Englishness) and your Pakistaniness (for example).

    It is racist, no matter how you try and dress it up as it being anything but.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by nckdn
    I can't believe I have to defend the opinion that the English are an ethnic group. Google "ethnic english" or english (and) ethnicity. The government, CRE and serious academics back me up. I've said it's the accepted view, that there isn't really an alternative view ever expressed in any area of public life. It's recognised by law! I can't believe I'm having to write this. In England! Most of you have the same viewpoint as Kermit don't you? JimV said basically the same thing. I'm really stunned. Let's not use words if we don't know what they mean.

    Sorry about this post, I sound like Victor Meldrew, I've been told I often do, tho' of course I think it's factually correct, although google.co.uk (UK only) was what I used. The sites are there which show that English is a recognised ethnicity. I'll admit to error, and with some of my views I do hope that you can show I'm wrong.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    anyone can make a site saying that english is an ethnicity, but then again its a nationality so think again
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