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'England' footballers not English?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Posting seperate to Racist Spain thread, hoping to start new debate.
The Spaniards were booing players who clearly were not Englishmen, and therefore shouldn't be playing for England. If they had been more aware of what Englishness is they might also have booed Wayne Rooney (Irish). If Michael Owen (Welsh) or Owen Hargreaves (Welsh/Canadian) played they should also have been booed. Possibly the Nevilles and Lampard are ringers too. Spain fielded Spaniards, England fielded a Commonwealth 11 (and were still outclassed).
The Black players were booed because they are not English. Most Blacks who have British citizenship identify as 'Black-British', 'Afro-Caribbean', or 'West Indian'. They do not claim to be English, and they are clearly not English. They have no business playing for England.
The English are a real, living nation and their identity and seperateness from the rest of the British and Commonwealth peoples should be respected and protected.
The Spaniards were booing players who clearly were not Englishmen, and therefore shouldn't be playing for England. If they had been more aware of what Englishness is they might also have booed Wayne Rooney (Irish). If Michael Owen (Welsh) or Owen Hargreaves (Welsh/Canadian) played they should also have been booed. Possibly the Nevilles and Lampard are ringers too. Spain fielded Spaniards, England fielded a Commonwealth 11 (and were still outclassed).
The Black players were booed because they are not English. Most Blacks who have British citizenship identify as 'Black-British', 'Afro-Caribbean', or 'West Indian'. They do not claim to be English, and they are clearly not English. They have no business playing for England.
The English are a real, living nation and their identity and seperateness from the rest of the British and Commonwealth peoples should be respected and protected.
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and as for englishness, i could report you for being a racist pig, end of the day if someone wants to call themselves an englishman im good with that if they uphold the law of the land, are good men/woman and have decency and pride within themselves and the ability to see it in others
you dont qualify or pass my tests, how i wish i was the PM
It's hard to debate with a racist cunt.
Fuck off.
bring out the ebola
If you like...not fussed.
yeh and that Mike Skinner/The Streets, claims to be 45th generation Roman and is still allowed to call himself English!!! I ask you what is the country coming to eh eh. grrr grrr. :mad:
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxuk156YYUS' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_118v.gif' alt='Lumpy' border=0></a>
indeed.
Idiot.
except Rooney, Owen, Lampard, the Nevilles etc etc...
I know he mentioned them, but just from what I read he was saying that black people can never be 'english'
Did understand, just wanted to highlight the ridiculousness of the post.
oh
If you have a problem then take it up with the FA or stop whinning.
Those players weren't being booed because they were english, they were booed because of the colour of their skin.
Now, if you are suggesting that the player's skin colour is what makes them "clearly" not english, then I have to ask what you use to define being "English".
Personally, I though being born in Engalnd was enough, failing that being born of English parent, usually applies too.
Actually, they claim an ethnicity but they are also English a most are proud of that.
Out of interest, I describe myself as being Kentish. Does that mean that I am not also English?
Sorry, but I don't see the relevance of this comment, except that I agree with it. And I'm sure that most of the players would too. After all they are English too...
two wrongs don't make a right
Tell me what "English" means then.
that's a load of crap and you know it, they were booed because they were black/the colour of their skin.
So by that reckoning, if i possessed any talent at football i would ahev no business playing for england because i am of chinese descent, even though i was born and lived in the same town in london for my entire life apart from university, and my parents have spent the majority o their lives in london as well?
I'm respectful of my chinese heritage, but in the same respect i am a lot more british or english than i am chinese. In the way i act, think and in my ideas in general.
'England' and the british nation are heavily built upon foreign interaction and immigration.
Look back at your family history. How far back do you have to go before you find out that your family dont exactly bleed red and white.
So many of us will have deep roots in other cultures, just because of their 'national' biological identity which you have constructed, does this automatically make them 'English' or no? Is the English identity in the physical or the cognitive mode? is their an English identity or is an eclectic mix? How much does a 'race' have to contribute to a society before it is excepted.
and you are totally wrong about why the Spanish booed the Black english.
If you come on here with an arguement like a leaky bucket, we are gonna point out the holes.
And it's the same in any country.
Thanks again MoK, MB, JimV and others, I'll think on.
just as a point of reference, wales and england are two seperate countries
It's a lie :mad:
You, sir, are not worthy of the title Kentish Man.
Yes, you just haven't defined it. What is it that you see as Englishness? Does skin colour count, because you certainly insinuate that...
and and and...
and what is your point here?
This would be because Wales is a nation in it's own right...
Wouldn't playing for England actually be a sign that this has happened?
At least for the individuals involved...?
Michael Owen born in Chester.
Wayne Rooney born in Liverpool.
Our patron Saint born?...
Chicken Tikka Masala anyone?
1)Can you be a member of an ethnic minority group and an ethnic majority group at the same time? It seems odd, somehow. Dolly Dagger's right that sometimes we put people in boxes, maybe that's why I struggle to accept this idea.
2)Do the members of ethnic minorities in England generally claim to be English, as BlackArab's experience suggests they do? No they don't.
3)Did I really say that this would make them English, as BlackArab claims I did? No.
4)Why is it unacceptable to ask why Non-English Britons are playing for an England team? I don't know.
BlackArab had me questioning myself and my opinions. If I'm wrong about ethnicity and Englishness, why haven't the other people who expressed disagreement with my opinion explained why I am wrong. That's what this board is for.