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Do the American rules of engagement say it is okay to approach the injured man, take careful aim and blow his brains out?
Well?
that decision i would think is down to the men and the way they view the situation. we rarely get the stories where prisoners are taken do we.
The US army (or the British, or any other) can stomp its foot until it drops off and claim it's part of its 'procedure' to murder in cold blood an injured, unarmed and non-threatening person. It still remains a murder.
In any case, the Pentagon and the White House appear to be saying that they completely disapprove of such actions and that they go against their own rules and international law.
Which brings me to the question I've asked Thanatos about 5 times now but remains unanswered? How do you feel about your commander-in-chief and your country's military bosses saying exactly the opposite of what you have been claiming regarding the murder of unarmed people? Namely that contrary to your claims, it is NOT okay or legal to shoot an injured and unarmed person in a non-threatening situation?
You must really hate that mustn’t you?
*waits on some pathetic response from globe*
In whose perception?
Never been there, have you?
Do the deed, then report back on your own perception.
Anything else? Is simply public masturbation.
And those politicians? Are simply saying politically expedient things, without first hand knowledge, themselves. Buying time. Has always been that way, and always will be.
In a "more perfect world". Soldiers do their duty, as it must be done, and the civilian world keeps its mouth shut concerning that which it cannot comprehend, but enables its parasitic existence, anyway...
you are a very weird and dangerous person
Again... in whose perception, and from what point of reference?
I posted this, a couple of pages back; Perhaps you might read it?
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/008650.php
What might seem clear, from a place of safety thousands of miles away? Is NOT the same as it will seem, when it surrounds you, and waits for your least little slip or hesitation...
Try it sometime. You will NOT like it...
have you seen the video, your boy's hardly hiding in some dark corner looking all shifty and all.
No, I haven't been there, and I don't know what its like to be in life or detah situations every day. I respect the soldiers who are there, who are serving their countries honourably. But I can see no justification in what I saw, regardless of what happened the day before in a different situation. So we can sit in our armchairs and support you and we keep you alive, but if we sit in our armchairs and disagree we have to join the Marines? Nice logic.
Instruct me here...
Exactly how do you propose "ascertaining", without rendering yourself dead, if he does?
Doing it your way? The day before?
Marines died.
Easy to have an idealistic opinion, concerning that which you have never experienced, and therefore cannot comprehend.
After you have witnessed a few Brother Marines killed by those faking being wounded/dead? THEN tell me how YOU would respond...
thing is that when a police security patrol becomes entangled in a fire fight that is on going, they have allready been fired upon you dimwit
fair enough even i support the marines, end of the day they are only doing their job, doesnt matter if its good or bad, they are simply doing the bidding of their masters
but damned i will be, i could produce you a poll where 90% are against the marines if you wanted
Kill everyone, including old men, unarmed people, and injured people.
Hey, what's a few hundred cold blooded murders if there is even the slightest chance that one of them might suddenly grow a third arm, produce a gun from nowhere and shoot the soldier, eh?
Better take no chances.
Frankly, I'm surprised your boys haven't dropped a nuke in Falluja... clearly the life of an (uninvited, illegal, foreign) US soldier is worth more than the lives of all the locals put together so why take the risk eh? Better to nuke them all...
Aladdin, you're starting to be embarrassing. It's obviously important that these issues are addressed, but you're starting to be more than a little ridiculous. So hush.
Mostly himself, on the basis that when I first arrived he had the capability to be rational in debate. Maybe I was mistaken. I think he's ignoring the arguements of the other side except for Globe, simply because he's insisting that he needs to be right. The truth is that he DOESN'T know, and what Morrocan Roll said earlier in the thread I think was much more revealing about what actually goes on. That man is a fount of knowledge.
As far as I'm concerned the only source of embarrassment here is from those who insist on attempting to justify cold-blooded murder, in an 100% non-threatening situation, with the pathetically feeble excuse that "you haven't seen battle, thus you're not qualified to comment".
I guess most us should refrain to comment on any event in history where violence and war was involved, including the most terrible events in history concerning dictatorships exterminating millions of people, since most of us haven't been in a war situation and clearly aren't fit to have an opinion or to judge the perpetrators... :rolleyes:
You might be happy to let cold blooded murders be captured on television and the murderer be let off. I certainly am not.
Don't swear at me. I think you'll find that you've just made my point for me. You have become fully irrational and you need to take a step back and take a good look around at your posting lately. Read what rolly said.
To be frank, and it pains me to say it, those have been exactly my thoughts towards you of late. You know, about appearing to have the capability of rational debate at first but that being a false impression.
And please, if you're really so offended by the f word, I think you've been hanging around the wrong forum. Pretty hardcore stuff eh?
But anyways, perhaps you would like to elaborate and tell us all how my posts have become irrational. I'd really love to know.
Please explain to me how claiming that taking careful aim from 2 metres away and shooting an unarmed, injured and non-threatening old man in the head in cold blood qualifies as murder is “irrational”.
Do you perhaps think warring factions have the ultimate say on human rights, the sanctity of life and what does or does not constitute murder?
If you think it was the word itself that bothers me? You're really really wrong, which suits at the moment. It's more that you feel you need to swear to make a point. And I know you're more intelligent than that.
I can honestly see no justification for the killing of this injured Iraqi. Even if there was, there's no way they should have allowed it to be filmed because it will simply make the US even more unpopular amongst Islamist extremists.
And Fiend/Aladdin, let's stick to the topic and leave the squabbling to the playground.
basically he says that the British army have more integrity and more morals that the US. When the british Army fight they shoot at targets, when the US fight they use their huge weapons to shoot randomly without question.
Apparently all 'friendly fire' deaths are caused by the US.
Anyway - it was a good chat and it taught me loads about the difference between the attitude of the American soldiers and the British.
In a more perfect world we would not need the military...
Also why should the civilian world keep its mouth shut?
We are the ones that pay your wages and provide the money to pay for your equipment. Without civilians you would not be needed, so aren’t you the parasites? To be frank the day that we can’t be critical about the military for its actions then that would be the day when democracy dies in both Britain and the US…
Morrocan Roll and I disagree on most everything of a political nature. However... the man has an awareness of the REALITY of war, whether he has personally been there, or has close relationships with those who have. It ain't pretty, and it ain't Sesame Street. It ain't "chatting up your mates" at the local pub. The rules of Hoyle do NOT apply.
Anyone who frequents this forum knows quite well that Aladdin is the apologist for Islamic terrorists, regardless of their actions. And me? Even though it was more than 30 years ago, I spent more than 500 days in close quarters combat (in the 26 months I was incountry)... the "up close and personal". Our views are diametrically opposed. Always will be.
The reality of combat? Is beyond the comprehension of any who have not survived it. It is a complete break from civilisation, especially when confronting an enemy whose greatest "successes" come from terroristic acts of the most barbaric nature, by sham surrenders, by public beheadings, by the disemboweling of women, by the most vile displays possible.
When the enemy employs sham surrenders as a basic component of their "play book"? You will see more and more acts of this nature: the enemy has made the "twitchy trigger finger" a necessity by their own actions. "If it moves, it dies" IS a battlefield necessity, unless you want to be personally responsible for horrendous losses.
I heard that Falluja was to be the largest urban engagement since Hue City; Hue City I know about, and it WAS "Hell come to Earth". So was Quang Tri, in the spring of 1972. And those of us who were in those places, can never forget what we survived. And anyone who was NOT there? Will never comprehend ...
I will agree with you on one point: the TV cameras have NO GOOD REASON for being there. They show an out of context snippet, not the whole of the battle. They do NOT show the constant sham surrenders which kill Marines; they do NOT show much of the reasons which make instantaneous reactions a necessity. They do NOT show why acts such as this MUST be the manner in which the situations MUST be handled.
Those Marines were told that it was suspected that the building had been re-taken by the rebel insurgents overnight. After days and days of those fake surrenders, what do you think is going to be their response? If it had been "cold blooded murder", then there would have been no "He's faking! He's moving!!!" being yelled as a warning... There would have simply been an unannounced bullet.
You pay wages with money... We purchase YOUR security with our blood, with our shattered lives, with our deaths. WE in the military shield the civilian populace from the realities found in Falluja. Ever been told the pathetically low wages to be found in the military? Is that meager sum sufficient to purchase YOUR very life?
Better re-think who the parasites actually are, and perhaps find the smallest bit of gratitude that it is not YOU who must shed his own blood, and perhaps sacrifice his own life.
NO amount of money can repay me for the gallon of my own blood, bled into the soil of Vietnam. NO amount of money can purchase back the lives of the 100 Marines who died next to me, nor the 58,000+ whose names are carved into that long stone wall. NO amount of money can buy back the lives of those who have died in Iraq, nor the others who have sacrificed their well being there, nor in ANY of the countless other places where our militaries have stood fast, and sacrificed themselves, individually and collectively, for the benefit of those who sit safely at home and criticise, in ignorance, that sacrifice.
Your existence, your liberties, your well being has been purchased by the blood of others, and not all the money you will make in your lifetime, can ever purchase back those individual sacrifices.
Want to tell me again exactly who is the parasite?