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War on drugs is over

JadedJaded Posts: 2,682 Boards Guru
or so the Guardian says in this article. It is nothing new, but I found it interesting reading. We can only hope it happens...
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i really wish this was reality, but i just cant bring myself to believe that it is so.:(
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,682 Boards Guru
    But what choice do they have? We can't be that stupid, can we?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    he he you're just being ironic because today is the blackest day the hi... i mean because Bush got (probably) re-elected today
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,682 Boards Guru
    Originally posted by Martin_Bashir
    Bush got (probably) re-elected today

    :crying:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LadyJade
    But what choice do they have? We can't be that stupid, can we?

    How long have you been living in this world? People are that stupid, and more.
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,682 Boards Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    How long have you been living in this world? People are that stupid, and more.

    Ever the eternal optimist, me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LadyJade:
    this article. It is nothing new, but I found it interesting reading. We can only hope it happens...
    An article from The Guardian written by the ghastly Polly Toynbee. I have never read such utter and complete nonsense. I have seen friends harmed by drug use before. The damage that stuff does to people's lives is insurmountable. The drugs war must not be ended, it must be enforced. For LadyJade to be celebrating is downright irresponsible and potentially dangerous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by stargalaxy
    The damage that stuff does to people's lives is insurmountable. The drugs war must not be ended, it must be enforced. For LadyJade to be celebrating is downright irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

    Well first of all thats rubbish, there are VERY few problem drug users who are completely lost causes.

    As for the 'drug war' itself, punishing hard doesnt work, have you seen Thailands War on Drugs recently, 1000's of killings and still and monumental methamphetamine problem.

    The US is the same.

    Harm reduction and reducing the demand for drugs is the only way forward.
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,682 Boards Guru
    Originally posted by stargalaxy
    For LadyJade to be celebrating is downright irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

    And why is that Stargalaxy?

    I am curious to know if you actually read the article. You may find the audit commission report on the local impact of drug use interesting.

    If you would like to investigate why people believe that prohibition is not a viable way of controlling drug use, then Transform have released a report on possible alternative options of control.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LadyJade
    And why is that Stargalaxy? I am curious to know if you actually read the article. You may find the audit commission report on the local impact of drug use interesting.

    If you would like to investigate why people believe that prohibition is not a viable way of controlling drug use, then Transform have released a report on possible alternative options of control. It is a well respected and endorsed organisation.
    Very well, Lady Moderatrix, I will save that weblink in my Favourites and read it very shortly. The reason for my strong views on drugs is that I saw a friend whilst on them. He took cannabis, denied taking anything else. Except he was caught out lying. Last time I saw him, shortly before he went off to uni, he said he was considering suicide. Perhaps you can tell me now that drugs do no harm.
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,682 Boards Guru
    Originally posted by stargalaxy
    Very well, Lady Moderatrix, I will save that weblink in my Favourites and read it very shortly. The reason for my strong views on drugs is that I saw a friend whilst on them. He took cannabis, denied taking anything else. Except he was caught out lying. Last time I saw him, shortly before he went off to uni, he said he was considering suicide. Perhaps you can tell me now that drugs do no harm.

    And where was it that I said drugs do no harm?

    I think everyone who posts on the drugs board, without exception, has experience of the negative impact of drug use, either personally or of someone close to them. Can you answer me then, why do people still take drugs? It isn't as simple as 'just say no', and people who advocate options of control other than prohibition are still concerned with controlling drug trading and minimising harm, just by other means.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LadyJade
    I think everyone who posts on the drugs board, without exception, has experience of the negative impact of drug use, either personally or of someone close to them. Can you answer me then, why do people still take drugs? It isn't as simple as 'just say no', and people who advocate options of control other than prohibition are still concerned with controlling drug trading and minimising harm, just by other means.
    Why do people take drugs? Oh, I wish I knew. My mate was a wreck. He had a problem with them, his mum then died suddenly from a brain haemorrhage and his problem became an addiction. I didn't know for the life of me what to do about him. However, as to why people take them, life becoming too difficult to cope with seemed to be one reason in his case. :( (edited due to Bashir complaining at me - again)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The reason for my strong views on drugs is that I saw a friend whilst on them

    them? what is this 'them'? alcohol maybe? obviously not but how can you even come out with that, every substance that has the potential to alter the state of mind is individual. This magical 'drugs' term is a gross over simplification.

    Your freind may have wanted to kill himself at one point and it may have been a horrible time for him but 'may' does not equate to 'will'.

    And anyway how does that limited observation of 'drug' use give you a complete picture of the entire scope of experience :confused: ive seen grand prix on the telly, so driving for MaClaren must be a piece of piss? no.
    However, as to why people take them, life becoming too difficult to cope with seems to be one reason.

    oh god thats ridiculous. If you believe that then you are implying that 'drugs' put people in a 'better' or 'elevated' state, which helps them escape their life that is 'to hard to cope with'. If altered states and getting high are all about escapism, then everything from bungee jumping to wanking becomes vicious? no course not.

    I am really sorry to hear about your mate, who sounds like hes had a very bad time, and im not denying (or conferming) that he has a problem with drugs. All i am saying is that, once again, you've run in with a sweeping and falsely authoritative statement that is quite clearly oversimplified.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Martin_Bashir:
    If you believe that then you are implying that 'drugs' put people in a 'better' or 'elevated' state, which helps them escape their life that is 'to hard to cope with'. If altered states and getting high are all about escapism, then everything from bungee jumping to wanking becomes vicious?
    My friend initially started using cannabis when he was 15, and used it regularly since. He smoked some tobacco every now and then, (as far as I know) and drank loads of alcohol. When I asked him why he used so much of the stuff, he really couldn't answer me.
    I am really sorry to hear about your mate, who sounds like he's had a very bad time, and I'm not denying that he has a problem with drugs. I am saying that, once again, you've run in with a sweeping and falsely authoritative statement that is quite clearly oversimplified.
    Look, I'm getting fed-up of jumped-up nannies telling me what I can and can't say. I was in the midst of a debate here and you come crashing in, lecturing me yet again on what to think. The statement is of course simplified, but if asked, I would elaborate on what I was saying. I am saying I have seen what drugs did, and I did not like it one bit.
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,682 Boards Guru
    Originally posted by stargalaxy
    Look, I'm getting fed-up of jumped-up nannies telling me what I can and can't say. I was in the midst of a debate here and you come crashing in, lecturing me yet again on what to think. The statement is of course simplified, but if asked, I would elaborate on what I was saying. I am saying I have seen what drugs did, and I did not like it one bit.

    I think what Martin was trying to do was contribute to the debate. You can't demand that people respect your point of view and berate them for expressing their own.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LadyJade
    I think what Martin was trying to do was contribute to the debate. You can't demand that people respect your point of view and berate them for expressing their own.
    That seems to have been exactly what Martin did when I made my comments. Just out of interest, LadyJade, have YOU used any drugs personally? (I haven't incidentally, seeing my mate high on E one day scared me and pit me off)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am saying I have seen what drugs did, and I did not like it one bit.

    no thats not what you said initially, you came in (again) with sweeping statements in an area of discussion that has far too many, and proceeded to tell everyone that
    The drugs war must not be ended, it must be enforced

    do you actually know anything about the effect, US foreign drug policy has had on poor communities on South America? The hundred of perfectly law abiding, non violent or threatening Marijuana users that Regan/Bush(mk1) decided needed locking up at the expense the American tax payer?

    oh and hows this for 'crashing in'
    The drugs war must not be ended, it must be enforced. For LadyJade to be celebrating is downright irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

    look im all for questioning authority, but god damn have some cause! Do you really think that a moderator of harm-reduction orientated youth project board would suggest something dangerous? and if they did, wheres your evidence?:confused:
    Look, I'm getting fed-up of jumped-up nannies telling me what I can and can't say. I was in the midst of a debate here and you come crashing in, lecturing me yet again on what to think.

    bollocks, if you post on a public forum anybody on here has the right to contest what you are saying. As for 'jumped up nannies', there wouldnt be so many around, mate, if certain people werent running around making sweeping statements and brandishing falsely authoritative language like kids with guns.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by stargalaxy
    An article from The Guardian written by the ghastly Polly Toynbee. I have never read such utter and complete nonsense. I have seen friends harmed by drug use before. The damage that stuff does to people's lives is insurmountable. The drugs war must not be ended, it must be enforced. For LadyJade to be celebrating is downright irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

    Maybe it would be a good idea to find out a little about what you're talking about before making a fool of yourself in this forum again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by stargalaxy
    Very well, Lady Moderatrix, I will save that weblink in my Favourites and read it very shortly. The reason for my strong views on drugs is that I saw a friend whilst on them. He took cannabis, denied taking anything else. Except he was caught out lying. Last time I saw him, shortly before he went off to uni, he said he was considering suicide. Perhaps you can tell me now that drugs do no harm.

    So you can draw a definite causal link between using cannabis and feeling suicidal can you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well done ladyjade!
    but ...i reckon that polly wotsit has nicked most of her stuff from MY posts on here ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    but ...i reckon that polly wotsit has nicked most of her stuff from MY posts on here ...

    well yeah i mean polly toynbee HAS been known to sound like a deranged old man from time to time :D

    (luv u really :D )
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why do people use drugs Stargalaxy? Hmm, a whole mix of reasons really, mainly because millions of people believe that the high is worth the risk.

    Now either there actually is something there or millions of people are deluding themselves.

    If all use led to addiction and sucicide how many users do you think there would be exactly?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Why do people use drugs Stargalaxy? Hmm, a whole mix of reasons really, mainly because millions of people believe that the high is worth the risk. Now either there actually is something there or millions of people are deluding themselves. If all use led to addiction and sucicide how many users do you think there would be exactly?
    I am not seriously implying that all drug users will end up dead. I am talking of one instance where there would appear to be a link between the two.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by stargalaxy
    I am not seriously implying that all drug users will end up dead. I am talking of one instance where there would appear to be a link between the two.

    And using that one example to extrapolate to the whole population of drug users. And from there making policy arguements based on it. Seems a little fool hardy to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by stargalaxy
    I am not seriously implying that all drug users will end up dead. I am talking of one instance where there would appear to be a link between the two.
    I dis-agree with there being a link with cannabis and suicide, doesn't seem logical in my mind. Maybe with other attributes thrown in especially the excessive amounts of alcohol you mentioned. I personally think the alcohol would have played a bigger part in your mates thoughts of suicide. Thats my personal opinion because I've being smoking skunk everyday for well over 6yrs and the only real negative affect I have had is increased paranoia and not being able to remember simple stuff when i'm stoned.

    As for giving drugs out on prescription to stop crime then I think it could be the only way forward, they shouldn't be dished out willy nilly to anyone claiming dependance but I think it needs to be considered seriously for the smack/crack heads who are funding there addiction through crime.

    I've had the experience of living with a smack head (brother) and the amount of money/belongings he has stolen from me and my parents is massive, always denied it. One of my mates once saw him wheeling the gas bbq out of the drive (thats how bad it was), he's not thick, he had what I can only describe as a disease and he knew he wouldn't get sent to jail by thieving off family because my mum n dad didn't want him in jail. If this had being an option it could have helped him and stopped him nicking. He is now clean from smack but he is now going to jail for conspiracy to sell the stuff, I hope they keep in there for a long long time personally.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thats all very well for habits which has some sort of cap on their use, like heroin.

    But give rocks out?! Thats maddness. Theres no way any sane doctor would prescribe that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Thats all very well for habits which has some sort of cap on their use, like heroin.

    But give rocks out?! Thats maddness. Theres no way any sane doctor would prescribe that.
    Explain why?? I have tried both of these once but i'm not a full fountain of knowledge when it comes to crack. Why be able to prescribe smack and not crack??
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am not seriously implying that all drug users will end up dead. I am talking of one instance where there would appear to be a link between the two.

    right, thats what you are saying NOW but thats not what you said originally, and you've arrived at this only after 3 or 4 users have piled in with the opinion that you are talking arbitruary bollocks (not to put anything in anyone's mouth, or keyboard :confused: ). If this is not what you meant to say in the first place, then consider what you post, very carefully, before you do and if necessary use EDIT.

    Drug use is a highly personal subject that simply cannot be judged in terms of causal laws or social trends, you can only infer or generalise and crucially you MUST AKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE DOING THIS.
    But give rocks out?! Thats maddness. Theres no way any sane doctor would prescribe that.

    something to ease the immense psychological dependance :confused: anyone know of anything currently being prescribed for this :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Lickalotapuss
    Why be able to prescribe smack and not crack??

    Because rocks is a bottomless addiction, you will just sit there and smoke and smoke and smoke till you're done and then want more.

    With junk you shoot up and then you're set for another 4 or more hours. Plus when you're high you're not going to do anything to anyone. Someone high on rocks is potentially dangerous and unpredictable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fair point.
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