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I don't like the implication here that the United Kingdom wasn't a civilised nation until 1999.
Unless they'res a big war on or something.
You mean like Iraq...
The point is, the statement that a country is only civilised once it has abolished the death penalty is absolute rubbish. We had the option of executing criminals convicted of piracy or treason, therefore we still had the death penalty as a viable punishment in our legal system.
I don't really agree with the statement on the concept of death penalty = uncivilised. It just seems to suggest that because they don't conform with our westernised views and values, they are therefore uncivilised.
And your point is?
A 'collective hobby' in the United Kingdom is to go down to the pub, watch the football, drink until you puke and then go home to shag yer bird after a kebab... How cultured :rolleyes:
I do think Japan is civilised, partly because of its media and how open they seem to be about sexuality.
Sure they have the death penalty... But ya could argue that they have a lower crime rate because of their prison systems.
Besides, who the hell makes the rules on what is right and wrong? It's pretty arrogant in a sense for us in the West to say this is right... that is wrong and then go around the world trying to change things to the way we are. Thus we are oppressing their values... Kinda like women are oppressed in some countries... and different races.
I don't agree with the death penalty in the least... It's just something to think about...
Who were the 'savages' then?
Consider the Neanderthals and early Homo Sapiens as being the primates. With the development of trade, culture, religion, co-operation and all of the Tool Age developments, primitive peoples became civilised.
They were probably about the same level of civilisation, because they developed a workable society. I think you're confusing the concept of civilisation with technological advancement, which are two different things.
Remarkable insight, well done.
I thank you.
I get rather annoyed with all this definition of civilisation. It's not as if we're all running around grunting and throwing sticks at gazelles in a vain effort to gather meat for ourselves...
Alright, maybe the grunting applies still.
Only between two people who love each other very much...:cool:
Not at all... I knew the answer, or the answer in what I believe... It's just a few posts back you referred to our ancestors as 'savages'...
How do we define what is 'civilised'? What is right and wrong? We judge by our own standards.
Democracy, theatre, a great deal of literature comes from Ancient Greece for example... yet this was a society where pedophilia was widely accepted.
The Celts were recorded to have dyed their skin with wode and gone absolutely apeshit on the battlefield like wild animals... Are they 'savages'? Because Celtic artwork is beautiful and their stories are incredibly colourful.
Looking at the very very beginning of the human race is hard because we really have no concrete evidence to say how the majority of prehistoric humans lived (Homo Sapiens & Neaderthals were different species).
Our ancestors from the dawn of time could have been described as savages, as long as they worked for themselves and their immediate offspring.
Is civilised essentially about right and wrong? I think civilised is only the concept of developing a society. The Aztecs developed a very successful society but also sacrificed people. Does this make them uncivilised? I think not. It only means they have a culture which allows them to do this. The same with paedophilia. However much we despise these activities, it remains that this was part of a workable society where all worked together to better themselves. In this sense, the Celts were also civilised. Lots of groups were rather fierce warriors, however at peace they were very much a collective that worked together as a society. Therefore, in my opinion, lions have developed their own civilisation. It is not as intelligent as ours but it is still a case of organisms of the same species working together for mutual benefit.
I know Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals were different species, my point is that at the early stages of their development, it is more than likely they depended only on themselves. Note how as our civilisation has developed, we depend more and more on others. It stands to reason that for no civilisation to exist, the only person you depend on is yourself.