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Civilised countries
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Just been listening to BBC News 24, and some American official, live from New York, was being interviewed. apologies as I didn't catch his name.
They were talking about Syria, Israel and terrorists. This official comments that "anything that brings Syria up to date with western, civilized countries is a good thing"
I'm sorry, are only "western" countries "civilized?
They were talking about Syria, Israel and terrorists. This official comments that "anything that brings Syria up to date with western, civilized countries is a good thing"
I'm sorry, are only "western" countries "civilized?
0
Comments
Yes.
Next question.
But then again, civilised may be an appropriate term for his frame of reference.
What's 'civilised' mean?
A nation or group that is superior technologically and socially.
Rubbish.
As far as I'm concerned the American official was ill suited to say what he said considering his nation is one of the world's most prolific State murderers in the world, and moreover the only one proud to admit to execute minors and those who committed their crimes when they were children.
How can some government person from a nation that is up there with China and Saudi Arabia in the execution league of shame believe he can tell other nations what constitutes 'civilised' is well beyond me...
Definitely.
The US isn't civilised.
But using that definition, then yes, only Western copuntries are civilised. Not all Western countries are civilised, but all civilised countries are Western.
Syria is not civilised. Nor, for that matter, is Israel. But Syria is backward, as is most of the Muslim world.
I have to say I'm on some levels not totally convinced. But the circumstances could be difficult to grasp. I almost support it when the person in question feels that the only punishment suitable is their own death, but not that they're commiting suicide.
But no, the US system isn't civilised.
Really, rubbish.
Are Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore ‘western‘?
Were Stalin’s Russia, Hitler’s Germany, Mussolini’s Italy ‘civilised’?
At any rate, I was discussing 'civilisation' the other day, in real life no less, and came tot he conclusion that it was often that when people didn't understand they assumed that the way of life in question was uncivilised.
To the first question, yes they are classed as "western" societies. They have well developed industrial and technological capacity, good transport infrastrucuture and public services.
The general population are well educated and recieve resonable healthcare.
Second:
Russia:No
Germany:Yes
Italy:Yes
Russia was technologically and socially backwards. Most of the technology they had was copied or reverse engineered. The people were overwhelmingly poor, state education was non-existent thanks to the purges of the early 20th century, and healthcare was abysmal and industry was only developing.
Germany was an industrial powerhouse, with excellent schools and hospitals provided free of charge to it's citizen's. Morally the Nazi party wasn't civilised but the German people were.
Italy, whilst relatively inferior technologically when compared to Germany or Britain, the people still had good access to schools and health care.
And the trains ran on time.
No, just contrary.
Anyway, Japan and Hong Kong are, in my opinion, Westernised, if not actually "Western".
Say what you want but Israel is definitely more civilized than Syria, and in many aspects more civilized than Denmark.
first working nuclear power plant ...advanced medicines and surgical techniques.
all with good welding and nuts and bolts of course.
instead of spending millions trying to develop a pen that would write in zero gravity ...they used a pencil!
all this took higher education ...advanced metalurgy and plastics technology ...design etc etc.
the space shuttle ...copied by the yanks from the russian one that unfortunately never took off as far as we know becuase of known safety fears which the yanks ignored.
their political system may well have been dreadful ...but the ruskies cannot be accused of having a primitive society.
The point with the USSR is they managed all of this stuff with reverse engineering, stolen plans and, most importantly, at the expense of the welfare of the nation at large. They would have collapsed in on themselves had they continued at the same rate.
I do accept this, however to be pedantic Labrat was quoting Stalins Russia.
As well as this, all these advances were at the expense of the welfar of the masses.
The USA, Europe and China managed all these things without sacrificing quality of life for the populations.
Russia and the USA both copied their rocket designs from captured German V1 missiles.
Well Japan must be more civilised than us then.
Depends on your perspective, the punishment for rape there is 2 years.
As for technology, all nations have access to the same technology it is just a question of wealth.
Is Britian less civilised than the US because we choose to ban GM crops?
Is Ireland less civilised because they do not employ the technology for abortions? Many Irish would say they were more civilised by making this their policy.
It is all a matter of perspective and comparison really, there are few absolutes.
A country where the collective hobbies are scat and bukkake? I doubt it.
Don’t you know about the PRICE of those ‘great achievements’? Every gram of Sputnik’s weight was equal to several TONS of human meat lost in camps. Who did really steal whose works? … and what the hell you know about Russian educational system?! NOTHING!
Although you have a chance to excuse….
PS About losing respect... just kiddding. You do know this, right?
Russia and industry aren't words that go together before the 1900's.
Most of Russia's economy was a backwards agrarian one. The only advantage Russia had during the first and second world war were an abundance of manpower, nothing else.
Most academics, teachers and other clever people were disposed of during the revolution delaying Russia's advancement by decades.
This is the sentence that sums up the debate.
Just because one society isn't seen as civilised from our persepective doesn't invalid it. The world is a big place and one man's view of civilisation and morality can be very different to that of another man's.