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Look at any religion and you'll see they all have rules or commandments to live by for a better life/afterlife.
You don't need to be religious to try and lead life by following the 10 commandments, they provide 10 easy ways of keeping on the straight and narrow.
And yes, society is breaking down. 200 years ago you didn't get teenage gangs running around because they were either at work or in svchool. And if they weren't they were taught a lesson by the adults around them.
50 years ago noone dare spit at a police officer, noone dared hit their teachers or urinate on an old ladies front garden. Yes, kids caused a nuisance, but they didn't take things to such extremes.
The other day a little snot nosed bastard sprayed orange juice on me. 50 years ago, if anyone dared do that to a police officer they'd get a smack off him and a smack off the parents and they wouldn't do it again.
:mad: because my trousers had just been washed.
Rose-tinted glasses? Or a trend that's been going on since history long passed? Or is it that one generation is badly behaved, and the next is well disciplined?
How about looking at the % of the UK population who attend church :rolleyes: That might give a somewhat more accurate picture of religiosity
Are you joking? 200 years ago, gangs (teenage or otherwise) were far more of a social problem than today.
If a little snot bastard sprayed orange juice on you, why didn't you beat fuck out him? And you really think that if he did that to a pig nothing would happen?
As for the 10 commandments, apart from do not murder and do not steal, what else would lead an athiest to keeping on the "straight and narrow"? Of the other 8 commandments, several are based on religion (do not worship other gods, covet etc) for example.
I know plenty of "good people" including myself who covet, who go against their parent's will, who have pre-marital sex etc.
My point was that people consider religion immportant enough to want to associate with. If you read more carefully, you'll see I said that people were no necessarily behaving in a faithfully christian manner.
The Ten Commandments
1. I am the Lord your God who brought you out of slavery in Egypt.
2. You shall have no other gods but me.
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
4. You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.
5. Respect your father and mother.
6. You must not kill.
7. You must not commit adultery.
8. You must not steal.
9. You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
10. You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.
Verses two and three are religious. Verse four instructs us to have a day off, verse 5 teaches respect for our parents, verses 6 and 7 you've covered, verse 8 don't steal, certainly seems helpful to society to me, Verse 9 is actually used in court, purjury is a crime, and if everyone could faithfully keep to verse 10 maybe the world would be a more peaceful place.
Verse 6 & 8 I covered actually, and yes they're helpful for keeping this current society going although it's obvious stealing and murdering aren't virtuous.
The first 4 verses are religious...keeping the sabbath holy is a religious tradition...I don't think the bible is needed to tell us to have a day off. Respect your father and mother? Nothing wrong with respecting your father and mother, leading your own life as you see fit may well contradict that however.
As for perjury, sometimes the law requires defiance.
As for abstinence I don't believe it keeps people on the straight and narrow, as the majority of the adult population will agree.
Where does pre-marital sex come into the 10 commandments?
Having a day off it actually surprisingly important, not just any day off, one day in exactly 7. The USSR tried having 1 day in 10 to up productivity, it fell off sharply.
I think that respecting your father and mother until you are an adult could solve an awful lot of problems in the way of mindless vandalism and petty theft. I'm not seeing a lot of parents saying to their children, 'While you're out dear, don't forget to smash up the playground'. Do you?
As for perjury, the commandment in question simply tells us not to lie about our neighbours. This, if kept faithfully, would stop so much malicious gossip and many pointless lawsuits.
My impression was that adultery, in the biblical sense, covered pre-martial sex.
1 day in 7 isn't enough anyway.
What does respecting your parents involve anyway? too veigh a term. I was getting drunk, smoking dope and doing other stuff before i was legally an adult at 18, so fuck...i was old enough to lead my own life.
1 day in 7 is all that is really needed for me. In a purely biblical sens adultery kind of covers pre-marital sex. But in the context of applications to society it would certainly be helpful.
You may think that you were old enough to lead your own life, maybe you weren't, I don't know. Having respect for your parents should come without question, I lead the life I want to lead, but I respect my dad enough to tell him when I'm getting home or if I've forgotten my keys not to make him wait up too late for me, or even if he asks me to come home much earlier than I had intended, simply for the reason he doesn't do it very often I'll obey him. I'm 19 but I live in his house.
It's important to have an idol that's responsible. Perhaps that's where the commandment can come into the world today, in a non-religious sense. The examples set by God, as Christ, are bound to be better than the average human.
But what you forget is that being your average "bad ass" (eminem, marilyn manson or whoever) is going to triumph over whiter-than-white idols who's asserstions are considered by many to be without proof. Someone who's saying "don't take drugs, follow your parent's will, don't have pre-marital sex, be a good boy/girl" isn't going to find much support amongst the most rebellious of age groups.
To be honest, looking objectively at the whole issue of religion, can you blame people for not believing?
Why is it, do you think, that Forest Gump grossed so much at the box office, and in rental and video/dvd sales? He was just a sweet-natured, and slightly daft, man. He just told the story of his life in which he was totally self-effacing and forgiving. Even to the female lead, Jenny, who spiralled out of control until she contracted cancer.
Do you think, that somewhere in the average person, a role model who had such pure intentions resounded? That somehow the average person was crying out for someone who could set a good example?
Please try to come up with a sensible response.
Forest Gump is a fictional story about a man who's not the full shilling.
I could equally say why do you think marilyn manson is an international icon hero-worshipped across the world? Perhaps his messages of indulgence, arrogance and nihilism also strike a cord
I apologise, i thought you were quoting something else. You are quite right of course.
Perhaps, but Forest Gump was so unexpected. I am yet to find a person who truly hates Forest Gump (though I suspect I'm about to) even if they didn't like the film they have no complaints about him as a person.
To be fair Marilyn Manson is a fictional character as well, a front put up by some bloke called Brian. But he's not as universally liked as the film Forest Gump.
Who cares about Forest Gump? Yeah it's an okay film, and he's a likeable guy, but it's pure fiction, nothing more. I dare say everyone likes Shrek too, but I'm hardly going to take him on as my personal role-model.
:rolleyes:
My point is that he is liked because he is a good guy, that he acts with grace and forgivness to everyone around him, at a time when racism was rife his best friend was black. On the basis of a deal made with this friend who is dead he gives half of a multi-million dollar fortune to his friends family. It's so against the norm.
Maybe a role model that people can look up to to be good isn't so far fetched after all.
Or maybe it is when the best example you can come up with his a fictional character who's a sandwhich short of picnic
Go about acting like Forest Gump and you'll get fucked in the ass (proverbially, that is) every day of your life. Ideally people might be "nicer", but that isn't going to happen. Reality is shit, learn to cope with it.
There are plenty of film characters who are 'a sandwhich short of a picnic' they are not nearly so popular, or so remembered. If people really did behave like Forest Gump, the world would be a better place. Reality doesn't have to be shit, I may cope with it, but I far from happy to accept it.
do you have a problem about people with learning disabilities/mental health problems?
You don't have to be exactly like Mr Gump. The point is Tom Hanks portrayed a person who was nice.
He did his best to help others, he was selfless.
What better example to live by?
I know, let's all act like Snoop Dogg, go out fuck some bitches and shoot some niggas.
You are the only one so far who seems to think that the huge loss of respect towards authority, people and property isn't a bad thing.
No, why? Do you?
If you're gonna start going all politically correct, you should really re-consider quoting Nietsche.
There's a difference between political correctness and being out and out rude. He has a point, your terms suggest a distinct lack of respect for the condition.
FFS, remember who we're talking about here - a fictional character.
It's not what we're talking about, it's the way it's being talked about.
It hardly matters. I know what i want in life, following the example of forest gump isn't going to help. People by nature are selfish, arrogant and greedy - it's how the world works.
Perhaps people are that way by nature. Why are you so inclined to lie back and accept this state of affairs? Don't you think that by Nuture, people can be kind, giving, and considerate?
Because I can accept what human nature is, and get on with it.
The answer to your question, I would say no. People manipulate, scheme and bully for power and status, and sometimes for personal survival.
A person can be all the things I've said they can and more. People is the combination of all the things that many persons as individuals have. A person may only have one of the flaws that you mention, people, by combination have them all.
I refuse to accept that people can't get better, simply because I know that there are persons out there, who are still trying.