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What's responsible for society's breakdown?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The below is out of the Christening thread, thoughts anyone?
quote:
Originally posted by superfly
does a lack of faith contribute to the unruliness of kids these days? now there's a question.
one of my favourite quotes comes from a group of old men in Russia, after the collapse of the soviet they coment on why things went so bad for Russia the the USSR
quote:
Men have forgotten God, this is why this has happened
Maybe a lack of faith and accountability is what's wrong with the youth of today. Give me til this evening and I'll get you some interesting stats.
quote:
Originally posted by superfly
does a lack of faith contribute to the unruliness of kids these days? now there's a question.
one of my favourite quotes comes from a group of old men in Russia, after the collapse of the soviet they coment on why things went so bad for Russia the the USSR
quote:
Men have forgotten God, this is why this has happened
Maybe a lack of faith and accountability is what's wrong with the youth of today. Give me til this evening and I'll get you some interesting stats.
0
Comments
the film Dogma referes briefly to God as
Is that really what people see?
I believe I am a good person though. I was brought up to have respect for others and I really do care about other people and the world around me.
I dont need to be emotionally blackmailed into behaving well by thinking someones watching me and ill go to hell if I dont do the right thing.
I do the right thing because I want to and i try and treat others how I would like to be treated myself.
I think lack of family support, breakdown of the extended family and increase in nuclear families, puts an incredible strain on parents and can make for bad parenting - that doesnt help society at all.
Also I think the breakdown in our society is partly caused by our capitalist culture of wanting something and getting it - immediate gratification, no consequences to actions. All worth is put on material belongings and happiness is defined by how much you can acquire and how much money you have to buy new shiney things all the time. people now worship money and that is a bad thing.
I think you raise some very good points but this Comes straight out of the christian ethics taught by christ.
No, people are corrupt. Read the religion thread, there's plenty good that religion is responsible for.
The point is more whether religion encourages good behaviour and it's lack allows for bad behaviour than what people end up doing in the name of religion. It's already been argued.
It doesnt mean I believe in God though.
to be honest I dont know what I believe. I know I really dont like most organised religion, in fact I think organised religion causes more trouble and is responsible for more wars than anything else.
Organised religion is often far removed from God.
Agreed. Christ didn't really go into organisation things. He did everything He could to turn things on their head.
yea thats true, religions like catholicism and most forms of protestantism are too focused on issues that don't matter, i.e statues and kissing "holy" relics, its all a load of superstitious shit, IMO you don't need to believe in a God, i.e. some figure in the sky with a beard but if you create an idea of what perfection should be and strive to reach this every day, then your just a religious as any person who goes to mass every day
There needs to be some kind of example then? And faith that somewhere at some time this example, person, existed; that it's possible for you to be the same?
Im happy enough to be as good as me.
and you can prove God existed, the only evidence we have of any God ever existing is the Bible and the Qoran (sp?), and you don't need faith to believe in a God, the only reason people have faith in God is because they wanna die and go to an after life and don't say thats not true because it is, otherwise there wouldn't have been a new testament, i'm happy enough to try and be the best that i can and go from this earth gracefully regardless if i'm catholic or whatever.
Does society at large work on that ethic? I everyone is only as 'good' as they want to be, where does that leave us, on the basis that not everyone is 'good' enough to intereact with others on a reasonable level?
i think you've missed the point here, she's not on about social status and who's better than who, she just wants to be as good a person as possible and that religion isn't a factor in this, i think.
No, i got that, I just don't think that works in general. On the ethic that everyone just has to be as good as they want we have no standards for law and justice. If a paedophile was only as good as they wanted, then what happens to the children they are around? And what do other do about it?
Just being as good as you want to be relies heavily on everyone wanted to be really good people.
i think being as good as you can and doing what you want are two different things but i can see where you're coming from, however, in the context of the debate, i think she means being a good person, i.e. doing good things.
Agreed, but for people to want to 'do good things' there has to be an agreed standard for what things are good. Religion often provides this standard. Or at least did so up until recent history.
Instead of people coming clean and accepting what they did was wrong, you get thugs running the streets in packs making other peoples lives a misery.
The police have too few powers to stop them, the parents keep saying "it's not our fault".
Of course it's your fucking fault.
When someone has a car accident, 9 times out of 10 the police are called to establish who was at fault, because it's impossible for either of the parties to accept it could have been them.
Lack of respect for people and property is becoming endemic, and it sickens me. What we need is a proper war, some sort of war of survival to get people to re-prioritise their lives.
Being a 'good person' is subjective anyhow.
So "thugs running the streets in packs" is a new thing? Go back 200 years and walk the streets of any british city and i'm sure you'll be fucking thankful the way things are these days.
This whole "breakdown of society" is pure reactionary bullshit.
Religion might provide a standard, but a standard based on what? Ancient superstition? Personally i'm agnostic, but organised religion is corrupt, has been responsible for war and oppression throughout history.
You don't need the church to tell society what's good and what ain't.
Proof?
Provide proof against it!
All I can say is that in my life, it's religious people who commit the most immoral acts.
The burden of proof is upon the one who maketh the claim
Although in general I don't disagree with you. A lot of devoutly religious people's holier-than-thou attitudes lead to callousness.
Organised religion does end up corrupted, but the message behind it is no less wrong because of it. Religion has been responsible for wars but for example christianity is near directly responsible for charity hospitals and hospices for the terminally ill. You don't expect the government to be perfect, religion can't live up to the same standards people behind it are, after all, only human.
We may no longer need a church to tell what's good and what's not, but this was not always the case. And honestly, if churches, mosques, temples and so on and so forth, were suddenly no longer there to provide guidance, would society degrade further? It can't be fairly denied by anyone that the current pope is a wise and good man, who speaks for world peace on a regular basis, despite the corruption associated with the catholic church.
Perhaps the tradition of confession in catholicism aided taking responsibility for oneself in the past?
It's important to remember in discussions like this that the religion as a whole becomes corrupted, the message and the people can remain as pure as originally intended. If christianity truely matched Christs example, don't you think it would be a shining beacon in the world, as opposed to some peoples target of blame or embarrassment?
But the fact is the church hasn't matched any righteous example. How about supporting general franco in overthrowing a democratically elected government so they could maintain their wealth and lands lol.
For most people in the West, the church and religion no longer provide direction or example. Your average person these days doesn't believe what the bible has to say anyway, which no doubt has something to do with the fact they aren't getting it forced down their throat from childhood.
Well to be fair, a billion people can't really be all that abnormal. Because last official count, not including china (which is closing on 300 million last estimate) the christian church had a billion followers in the world. And bearing in mind the world has a rough population of 6 billion, i wouldn't say average person. Maybe average person in India, considering they are Hindi, or average person in the Mid-east, as they are more Muslim or Jew (in Isreal). But a billion people? I must admit I only have recent data for Britain
I hope you can read that clearly, as the table as collapsed. I would probably be the last to argue that because some says they are a christian, that means that they follow christian teachings faithfully.
But 70% of the UK recently said they were more Christian than anything else. Including non-religious.