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Farenheit 9/11
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The first thing I feel compelled to say is that if you have not see then film then to go see it (bearing in mind it is hugely biased, so take bucket of salt along).
The film for me provocted a lot of feelings, mostly ones of helplessness, dissapointment and dismay. Some items, and again I am compelled to point out that all but for one instance (in which only a professional economist can tell the difference) are based on irefutable facts, were entirely new to me, and other were not. The entire film in it's construction was hugely interesting.
So, getting to the point, before I state my opinion, I was wondering if anyone else had one?
URL shouty for information http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/
has all the back ground info and where it comes in the film if you'd rather read it.
The film for me provocted a lot of feelings, mostly ones of helplessness, dissapointment and dismay. Some items, and again I am compelled to point out that all but for one instance (in which only a professional economist can tell the difference) are based on irefutable facts, were entirely new to me, and other were not. The entire film in it's construction was hugely interesting.
So, getting to the point, before I state my opinion, I was wondering if anyone else had one?
URL shouty for information http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/
has all the back ground info and where it comes in the film if you'd rather read it.
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Comments
</cynic>
Aye but it's good to hear things from both angles. Usually you only get ol' Bush on the TV talking about saving the world and whatnot...
I don't mind Michael Moor... but then I agree with a lot of what he says. Bowling for Columbine rocks.
luke ...get your head round this one.
if the best inteligence services in the world were making fuck up after fuck up and knew nothing or very little that made sense ...how come bush protected the binladen family immediately by giving them the only air space in the whole of the nation?
micky moores film isn't giving some biased view on this ...he isn't even revealing something we didn't already know. we were discussing these things on this board a long time ago.
the bush family and the bin ladens have been in big big business together for many years.
how dare the president of america aid in that families escape?
I don't deny that the style is biased. But the facts behind the film are all true mate. More true that the reasons we went to war (both times) and more true that what of an awful lot of americans believe.
I watched 9/11 in Washington with my sis-in-law. To be fair 95% of those living in DC are Democrats. But the discussion I had with the people out there, were all ones of dismay and disapointment.
I think you should have a good look through the website I posted (for that matter everyone should). A person can draw any conclusion they like from one fact, but the shear volume of interconnecting information that's been compiled is pretty compelling.
Watch the film when it comes out too, check the facts are there. Or take my word for it that they are, I read it, that and the patriot act (Anyone fancy giving up their human rights?!). Something needs to be done, and unfortunatly we can do nothing but watch.
No its not. Its called editing. If you were under the scrutiny of the camera all the time someone could probably edit together a 5 minute piece of you picking your nose - doesn`t mean you pick your nose all the time.
There was a straight section of film of him talking about how the USA had gone to war, then (as he's playing golf, on holiday again?) he says 'now, watch this drive'. Really, watch the film, you can edit a sequence like the one in question, but there are dozens of sections (that aren't edited to give an impression) of him making a muppet of himself.
And more to the point you can edit film yeah, but you can't edit facts, it's a fact what time he was told, and it's a fact what time he decided to get up and do something about it. That sort of thing can't be changed mate.
Facts speak for themselves in this event.
Yes thats true that the first section you mention didn`t need any editing, he looked stupid anyway.
But the second sequence you mention, where Bush is at a school (in Florida?) reading with kids is a prime example of Moores propaganda style film making. He shows the president sitting solemnly after hearing the news of the first plane, now Moore has absoloutely no idea whatsoever what Bush is thinking, but the voiceover confidently tell us that hes thinking about his dodgy Saudi connections.
Bush could well have been thinking about panic avoidance strategies, like projecting an image of calm and normalcy by not leaping out of his chair for instance. Noone knows.
Moore`s crass method of throwing countless insults and looney allegations in the hope that a few of them will stick is stupid.
By surgically ripping sections of the film out of the total context of the thesis presented, such articles as the 59 deceits actually ignore what is a very factually substantiated film - where factual assertions are made - and further ignore the homogeneity of the message of political duplicity which anyone who has followed events since 911 (and indeed those who have researched events leading up to 911) would already be quite familiar with even in the absence of Moore's populist effort.
Go back in these very forums to the debates which preceded the war and many of my detractors (and Alladin's) may be stunned with how much of what we argued then (amidst a hail of snide retorts of "conspiracy theory" and "collaborator") indeed have subsequently achieved more mainstream acceptance and publication.
I have more than my fair share of "I told you so" notches on my belt and, quite frankly, i would prefer that people had simply not been so willfully blind to the truth to begin with. Those who continue to sneer only show themselves more loyal to partisan ignorance than to the truth.
Clandestine, dude, you are awsome.
Well said
And weren't at least four of the hijackers Iraqi?
*huge mischievous grin*
I'm sorry, 'even checked their passports'?! You'd do that with anyone surely? What do you mean 'even checked their passports'? They did that to me when I left! I wasn't related to the leader of the terrorist organisation suspected to be responsible. Surely any sensible person would ask some questions do some background checking of every one of them. For another point 'own safety' do they not have protective custody over there? Can the US authorities not protect a small group of people for a few days, maybe while asking questions? Why were they given clearance to fly. The Son of God wouldn't have been able to get flight clearance so soon after september 11th, why can these Saudi's with a dodgy connection fly out on the 13th?
And, now for point number three. If I remember correctly, just before the Iraq war. Osama Bin Laden declared Mr Hussein to be a traitor against the true faith of Islam, which removed some fear of reprisal attacks because of the war.
Forgive me if that last point is inaccurate. The rest of it stands.
sorry...
it is a PROVEN FACT that bush has taken more vacations than any other president. and they didn't have 5 minutes of bush jacking off. they had a lot more and could have made a 10 hour movie of all the footage if they had wanted to. not only has he taken more vacation time, the us is at war! i do not think it is appropriate to sit on your ass/play golf while sending masses of people to die (not to mention all the people they are getting sent to kill). this movie wasn't trying to make people think that he didn't do anything, it was trying to point out that during a time while millions of people are dying under his influence he's out at his ranch doing whatever the fuck he wants to.
I'm sorry, was that sarcasm? because if not could you explain that?
Perhaps it is a breath of fresh air because they are an American who openly doesnt like Bush!
Can you be erased from existance for that yet?
If anyone fancies similar breaths of fresh air go to DC or NYC for a few days, both are 95% democrat. Bush is hardly their favourite person
Let's hope for the sake of mankind that he is not allowed to cheat his way into office again.
My first thought is (not knowing huge amounts about the political systems in the USA) perhaps the republicans heading there is part of their re-election campaign. And second I didn't say everyone hated him, but both DC and NY are near given for the democrats
http://democrats4bush.com/
One need not be a republican to be a "neo-con". The phenomenon cuts across party lines equally.