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Why UKIP have got it wrong
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
Why are we tryng to seek "independance" from Europe? Shouldn't they be trying to seek independance from the US of A? If anyone walks all over us it's America. If any country has repeatedly refused to listen to what's best for the world and not the corporations, it's America.:mad:
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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It's like Bush says "jump" and blair says "how high"?
actually its more like Bush says "go to war" and Blair says "with how many troops?"
Europe does not "rule us".
Stop repeating the rubbish, misinformation and malicious lies the xenophobic press spouts.
The EU is currently threatening Britain over limits on fags/booze being brought into the country;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3874785.stm
Legally the EU has much more influence over us than America.
Oh the horror people cannot bring tonnes of fags and booze into the country what a shame :rolleyes:
The US on the other hand dictates our foreign policy, uses us for its Stars Wars shield and gives us nothing in return and completely ignores our wishes and concerns regarding countless issues from steel tariffs to Middle East policy to the illegal imprisoment and torture of British ciitzens.
All thanks to our spineless PM.
No matter how much the tabloids make such absurd claims, and no matter how many times you repeat them, it's not going to change the facts.
Stop the scaremongering.
Europa
http://europa.eu.int/abc/index_en.htm
We get many more laws from Brussels than we do from Westminster, and if the federalists had their way, Westminster would be dissolved.
Its not scaremongering, its a completly valid concern.
What is a Constitution? A set of rules about how a nation s governed. If the EU doesnt want to become a superstate, as you claim, then why does it need a constitution?
Single currency, European central court, commen policies in agriculture and Fish, an EU parliament, now a constitution, these all point towards the continuing integration of Britain into a European superstate.
Of course they are, the US is the most powerful nation in the world by a heck of a long way , it is going to have a lot more influence.It would be the same if Europe was in charge.
Since the end of WW2 Britain has had an Atlanticist foreign policy, this is one of the pillars of our foreign policy, and it certainly enhances our presence on the world stage.
What on earth are you on about?
Matadore a constitution is not only for nation-states but for any organisation
Yes nations have constitutionals but the description given in a dictionary also for political or social organizations. Which is what the EU is a political organisation of nations. So having a constitutional does not mean that it is paving the way to a superstate.
The question is whether the EU will become a supranational institutional (Extending beyond or transcending established borders or spheres of influence held by separate nations) or an intergovernmental organisation (Being or occurring between two or more governments or divisions of a government.
At the moment the EU is a hybrid of the two. It is a supranational institutional as it has a Parliament. However at the moment it is the Council of Ministers which make the important decisions in the EU and that is an intergovernmental. I don’t see this changing as most members are happy with this situation including France who is the biggest intergovernmentalist in the EU.
I think it being quite civilised at the moment (but this could change soon
Doesn't make it right though does it? The fact that the US stacks so called "free trade" rules in its favour and shafts developing countries.
The European Communities Act 1972 means that the highest court in the UK is the European Court of Justice. Like it or not, it's a fact.
What this question hinges on is whether or not you agree with the way it is. Europe gives a lot of benefits, but it IS more than a "trading bloc" now.
I am happy to be in the European Union because the EU provides us with a great deal of commercial benefit- over 70% of all UK trade is with the EU, and this level would drop if we left the EU- and the USA do not provide us with this economic benefit. I don't see the USA trading with us (in fact, if we say "no" to them they destroy our industry) and do not trust the Americans to tell me the time.
It depends what you want. If you want good trading links and a secure community go with the EU, if you like being imposed upon and shat upon (like with cashmere, steel, and the "Son of Star Wars" project that makes us a legitimate military target WITHOUT PROTECTING US) go with the USA.
They only rule us to the extent that we rule them.
http://www.britainineurope.org.uk/pressroom/releases/EUROPEAN%20MOVEMENT%20CHALLENGES%20UKIPS%20PHONEY%20FIGURES
Q&A: The UK's EU rebate
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2360889.stm
No 10 defends British EU rebate
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3877197.stm
This is something that I hear said a lot, have you got any figures to illustrate?
Take a look at the USA luke.
They are ruled by a president who single handedly has destroyed almost ALL of their welfare state.
He has made it practically illegal to organise a protest, he has ensured those who do protest are labelled as terrorists/traitors.
He has removed the notion of privacy and allows the government to spy on it's citizens with no evidence whatsoever.
Over 50% of Americans earn less than $16000 a year (£13500) which is a pittance. They earn so little because he has outlawed union membership in all federal jobs. They earn so little because he has removed the minimum wage.
Many Americans earn less than the equivalent of £3.50 an hour in menial jobs.
He presided over 150 executions when he was governor of Texas and has ensured that it's almost impossible for someone on death row to appeal.
He gives public lawyers $40.00!!!! to use to gather evidence supporting the defendant.
He allows corporations to wantonly pollute the environment. He refuses to provide research money to scientists trying to find renewable resources, because the oil companies give him money.
He has replaced nearly all supreme court judges with republican sympathisers to ensure his will is enforced.
He refuses to allow congress access to files concerning his relationship with Osama Bin Laden (his family provide over $1 billion to the US government in corporate backhanders each year).
He has repeatedly lied about the events concerning 9/11 and refuses to acknowledge that he was given information MONTHS in advance that an attack was imminent.
ALL the media coverage in the USA including newspapers and radio is owned by one of four corporations. 3 of those are sympathetic to Bush and spread his gospel. In the UK, because of EU laws it is impossible for one company to have so much influence.
One last one. Because of this media influence, TWO THIRDS of Americans believe Saddam was responsible for the attacks on the World trade towers.
All of these things are because Bush answers to nobody. The EU is there to protect the rights of the individual citizen, it ensures we have good wages, access to unions, the rights to protest, the rights to strike (if an American goes on strike, he loses his job) e.t.c.
If we had none of these safeguards we would be in the same posistion as America. Bush is PRAYING for another terrorist attack, because it will give him the excuse to impose martial law and suspend elections.
No he didn't. Why are you lying?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/18/kerry.wages.ap/
"Such a boost in the minimum wage, which has not changed from $5.15 since 1997"
Kerry wants to raise the minimum wage to $7 from $5.15 -- the fact that he wants to raise it from $5.15 makes your statement that the minimum wage was removed entirely false.
"Bush is PRAYING for another terrorist attack, because it will give him the excuse to impose martial law and suspend elections."
I don't like Bush but I do not believe that he wants another terrorist attack. I hate his politics but I don't believe he is evil.
"Over 50% of Americans earn less than $16000 a year (£13500) which is a pittance. They earn so little because he has outlawed union membership in all federal jobs. They earn so little because he has removed the minimum wage. "
Could you please provide a source for these statistics? Or have you just made them up?
Sorry a typo, he didn't remove minimum wage (except in texas) however he won't increase it. $5 isn't a lot of money, about £3.75 in real money.
Michael Moore can be very selective with the truth (rather like most politicans) and he manipulates the facts a lot. He's been caught out on a number of occasions.
I met him once and he seems a great person, it's a shame we don't have a decent UK equivalant to highlight the stuff Blair is doing.