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patriotism
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
on here i noticed people kept saying how people in this country get far too proud of our country, which is actually a bit of a contradiction as most of the time we actually jsut whinge about how crap it is here,
when compared to most people in world we have it good even when you compare to other developed nations
strange eh!
personally i have a sense of loyalty and attachment to this country, to nothing in particular just a connection to it all so dont ask "what makes you british/english"
when compared to most people in world we have it good even when you compare to other developed nations
strange eh!
personally i have a sense of loyalty and attachment to this country, to nothing in particular just a connection to it all so dont ask "what makes you british/english"
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If people are proud of where they are from then they look after it far better than if they are not proud of where they are from. People who feel socially included work better, are more productive, and less destructive.
However for a lot of people being patriotic is synoymous with being a xenophobic little Englander. This is a false opinion as they are not mutually exclusive- I'm proud to be English but I don't detest all other nations- but it is this attitude which means that displaying the Union Flag is "racist".
being proud of where you live, work etc is something that binds communities together, otherwise you get s**tholes forming
I'll sit on the fence here... Yeah, patriotism can bind communities just as religion can, ethnicity ect... But then you also get rowdy football crowds, people from their own country going abroad and trying to make others like them... ect.
And in one fell swoop you prove the point that I was making.
Being proud to be English and from England does not mean that you cannot move to Spain and live like a Spaniard.
The two are not mutually exclusive. People who move to Spain and live in their little English enclaves are not "patriotic", they are averse to change. There's a difference, and it ain't exactly subtle.
I was talking more along the lines of the idea of the 'western way' and globalisation and the whole going to war morale some squaddies I've met seem to have.
Subscribing to the "My country right or wrong" type of fanatical patriotism is very very wrong and dangerous and should be repelled.
As Kermit has said however you don't need to subscribe to the latter in order to do the former.
Otherwise labelled "jingoism".
Some people in the country perhaps are tollerant of diversity but by no means not all. Would you not question the belief that a majority of the UK population is not racist? Would you say that the population of the UK was tollerant with people such as the BNP and Islamic extremists and the establishment of the country time and time again being accused of institutional racism?
i constantly question what the majority of the population is thinking to do some stupid things....
hmm that question of whether its unfair to not tolerate those who are closed-minded
humans are naturally prone to xenophobia and its being exploitedby many members of the apparant 'free press'
i do like to hope theres a good side to human nature and well most people i come across tend to be accepting of other nationalities, its just they tend to believe a lot of the myths spread around, and when actually corrcted are like "ahhh i getcha"
Yes, but when our way of life and values are obviously superior, why not make an attempt to enlighten those who do not subscribe to our liberal values?
Superior to what?
Cultures which demean women, which condone capital punishment, which end up in genocide (Sudan for example).
I'm sure those on the left would be the first to critiscise these cultures, but would they try to change them?
Chopping hands off for theft?
Stoning women for adultery?
Raping women for "family pride"?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for all the US' mistakes, stoning women for adultery isn't actually one of them.
But matadore seems to think that the West is the pinnacle of civilisation. A lot of Western culture also demeans women, condones capital punishment and invades other countries for their natural resources.
But the point does still stand that the "Western" culture of democracy and freedom is superior to the culture of serfdom, or the culture of the caste system, or the culture of keeping owmen chained to the kitchen sink.
Whilst those ideas are still in the West, they are not as dominant anymore- most people see racism, homophobia and sexism as wrong, regardless of the whingeing of the CRE and the Lawrences.
And people see racism is wrong, precisely because of the "whinging" (I think you're being a patronising twat btw) of the Lawrences and the CRE etc. Rights and progress never happen on their own.
Western culture is one of the best, but for in some countries, Western culture was not steadily implanted within existing cultures, but instead just shoved in and "mixed up" with the existing culture. An example of this is economy. Never before did countries such as Ghana and Jamaica (though Jamaica could been seen as it were to a lesser extent, the former slaves retained their culture because they were rarely given the chance to live in the same world in which their white owners lived in) have to handle an economy which existed much more than an exchange of fifteen goats for three slaves. The whole time the empires existed, the people at the top were the imperial powers and then lived as they did at home in Europe, while the natives lived as they had traditionally, but socially they were forced to try and adopt the Western way. When Jamaica and Ghana were given their independance, Britain appeared to give them a stable economy before they left, but the cracks appeared within the economies within a few years because the governments could not control them. They now have very evident economic problems.
I think there is no finer culture than that one can find in the very centre of the Amazon rainforest. These people living as they did hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago. They have their own form of heirarchy, they fend for themselves and so have no need for trading and they have no need to develop technology beyond the existing one.
You regard stone age savages as the pinnacle of human civilization?
THere is so much wrong with that post that I am not going to state everything, itd take all day.
Ah... I'm a believer in the 'survival of the genes' theory, the evolutionist perspective on human nature. And yeah, I think that it is human nature to demean the weak... I mean it happens in the wild all the time with chimps (our closest living relative... if we'd have evolved from gorillas we'd have a completely different nature). Whether we realise it or not, altruism is non-existant (in my opinion) and everything we do has a gain for ourselves...
Savages? I've heard this term before applied to the 'primitave' civilisations of Ancient Greece and Rome... which ironically enough are where democracy, the first publication of literature and theatre originate from. Just because a civilisation is older than our own or different doesn't make it 'savage'.
These people have lived thousands of years without the need of technology, anti-biotics and medicine for if they get one tiny headache and fast food... gotta admire 'em.
I think its a bit more complicated than that. Yes, we are primates and a lot of our behaviour is governed by instinct. Yet we also have culture which governs a lot of our behaviour too.
Nah, I'm talking about an evolutionist perspective towards the way in which we behave. Each perspective in the field of psychology is relatievly straight forward as it is in say... social sciences. I just believe in the evolutionist perspective in a lot of cases.
As for culture... Again it's all about survival of the genes. Act or behave in a certain way to attract a female and pass on your genes. We are conditioned in to a heirarchy, which we get punished for if we rebel (kinda like a Beta attacking an Alpha). I'll post some more later to back up my ideas on that... But I really have to go to work and earn some money... Thus I'll be able to socialise and meet people, expanding my social circle and my chance of finding a mate to pass on my genes and keep the species strong.
Tata :P
I also think patriotism is a bad thing. It sounds nice in theory but in practice patriots are easy targets for governments to manipulate. They are always ready to pay any tremendous taxes, obey any absurd laws, be driven to any stupid war- everything for the country’s sake of course. ‘Selfish bastards’ who wouldn’t give a damn for their country are real headache for ruling elites.
we should also question the companies who have a responsibility to communities etc
Sure, admire them in a museum.