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Communism

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I go to work every morning not out of greed, but out of necessity and an instinct of survival.

    You don't need to be greedy to want to work and earn enough to eat. I manage just fine.

    Greed is what prompts CEOs to award themselves obscene pay rises and bonuses even as the company records losses and blue collar workers have to be laid off. How on earth is that a good thing other than for the greedy scumbags happy to see people lose their jobs so they can earn even more ridiculous amounts of money?

    Greed is what makes private companies that run public services (and this is just one instance) to cut corners and refuse to carry out maintenance work and upgrades unless it's absolutely necessary. And all because they want to maximise profits for themselves and the company’s shareholders. And if trains derail and are forever delayed, and if water pipes burst and billions of litres of water are lost because privatised water companies don't want to upgrade the network, and if customers are forever inconvenienced, offered a piss-poor service or even killed as a result of such negligence, well that's a small price to pay for the sacred right to make as much profit as possible, all in the name of greed and capitalism.

    Yes, greed is such a wonderful thing...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin


    Greed is what prompts CEOs to award themselves obscene pay rises and bonuses even as the company records losses and blue collar workers have to be laid off. How on earth is that a good thing other than for the greedy scumbags happy to see people lose their jobs so they can earn even more ridiculous amounts of money?

    Greed is what makes private companies that run public services (and this is just one instance) to cut corners and refuse to carry out maintenance work and upgrades unless it's absolutely necessary. And all because they want to maximise profits for themselves and the company’s shareholders. And if trains derail and are forever delayed, and if water pipes burst and billions of litres of water are lost because privatised water companies don't want to upgrade the network, and if customers are forever inconvenienced, offered a piss-poor service or even killed as a result of such negligence, well that's a small price to pay for the sacred right to make as much profit as possible, all in the name of greed and capitalism.

    Yes, greed is such a wonderful thing...

    I could not have said it better myself :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Give people an equal but spartan start in life then pay them with standardised Labour credits based on what they do and how important it is to society. Those who work well, live well and can use their credits to buy the luxuries of life....those who don't work without reason have a very basic (but not poor) standard of life plus there can be a safety net for those who cannot work without reason.

    No manipulation to ones own needs, and a motivation to work, plus the healthy production of consumer goods for people to spend their credits on which the Soviet Union did not focus on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No disrespect Aladdin but that is a fairly simplistic response. In fact, to an extent, it shows another of the "deadly sins", envy.

    Greed isn't just visible at the "top" echelons of business but in many others areas too. How many strikes have there been over the years for pay increases, for example. Don't youthink that a 30% wage hike requested by the fire unions last year was to make sure that they each had roofs and food or was there an element of greed.

    We all want more than we have now, we all want to improve our lives there are very few people who just want to remain with the status quo...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Communism
    Originally posted by xicoperez
    Emm... The U.S.S.R. was not communist.

    So is Cuba a better example?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    No disrespect Aladdin but that is a fairly simplistic response. In fact, to an extent, it shows another of the "deadly sins", envy.

    Greed isn't just visible at the "top" echelons of business but in many others areas too. How many strikes have there been over the years for pay increases, for example. Don't youthink that a 30% wage hike requested by the fire unions last year was to make sure that they each had roofs and food or was there an element of greed.

    We all want more than we have now, we all want to improve our lives there are very few people who just want to remain with the status quo...
    Some people might act out of greed even at working class level- that is true. But not everyone does it, nor is greed the only driving factor for wanting a better life.

    I've accepted a 0% pay rise when times have been bad. And I've been awarded generous pay rises in times when things have gone well, without requesting it. In either case greed paid no part. I believe it is possible to have a caring, even a capitalist society without the ugly and inhuman greed element, seen most actively during the Thatcher years and who prompts people to ask for unrealistic pay rises or to run their companies for the sole benefit of its shareholders and CEOs, even when the company itself is offering an essential public service to the public.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think that the main difference is that the CEOs are in a position to award themselves the rise. The workers don't have that option.

    And yes, there are many CEOs for whom the rise has been a little "excessive" shall we say.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How I see it?

    I always want more. And I can watch poor kids, sick people, etc. yet it won't have an effect of what I want for myself.
    Meaning that I can wish for everyone to lead a happy healthy life, and pay to charities or whatever, but others misfortune won't make me want to achieve less.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But do you acknowledge that greed is directly responsible for the misery of countless millions as described above (CEOs of failing companies awarding themselves big rises and bonuses, and private companies refusing to invest properly in public services to maximise profits)?

    Those are but a couple of examples of why greed is reprehensible and undesirable.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's like saying sex is wrong as it creates teen-moms and rapists.

    Greed is natural. And no, it doesn't always show the good in people, but neither is it completely vile and the root to all missery.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    But do you acknowledge that greed is directly responsible for the misery of countless millions

    So is love.

    In fact, more so...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I guess that's where we differ. I don't consider greed a natural human quality- some people have it but some people don't. Nor do I think greed is needed or wanted at any stage of a person's life.

    It is possible to be ambitious without being greedy. Perhaps we just disagree in the exact term of the word. For me greed signifies an unnatural and selfish coveting of wealth, most often at the expense of someone else be directly or indirectly. An ugly word for a nasty quality.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    the root to all missery.
    thats usualy the lack of money.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No MoK, Cuba isn't a better example as Castro's system was based on Stalin and influenced by Kruschev. I'll say it another way. The Soviet Union, Cuba , China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia and any other country that has claimed to be communist were not communist.

    And the greed thing...

    As I said before greed is natural. We can't state that any human instinct that we don't like is not a human instinct. The idea of being human is to have less instincts than the rest of the animals and control the few we have.

    The basics of a good communist education is to teach people to find equilibrium between our natural greed and our natural altruism.

    This is something capitalism doesn't do. It puts way too much enfasis on greed (and then calls it ambition, and then changes the real meaning of ambition). And when we talk about altruism we show how good and strange it is, and we must pay back to the altruists all the good they have done... wich is against the point of altruism and can turn this altruism into greed.
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    others misfortune won't make me want to achieve less.

    Others misfortune will make me want to achieve more.
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    But do you acknowledge that greed is directly responsible for the misery of countless millions as described above.

    Greed is not directly responsible. Capitalism is directly resposible.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    we are not greedy by nature. man is a social animal. it's more in mans instinct to give share and save. a man will give his own life to save a strangers.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Watched Big brother recently?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    Watched Big brother recently?
    no thanks i have enough rubbish in my head thankyou.
    i watched some of the first one ...i've watched bits of stuff about painting a wall or digging the garden ...what a pile o crap!
    is this what the human condition has been reduced to?
    are we devolving?
    you do surprie me lady ...watching stuff like that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    you do surprie me lady ...watching stuff like that.

    I wasn't surprised...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    we are not greedy by nature. man is a social animal. it's more in mans instinct to give share and save. a man will give his own life to save a strangers.
    Survival of the fittest, would mean that there is competition and greed involved in getting the meat.

    Social habits have come later.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasn't surprised

    You should be surprised I watched Big brother , I watched last nights, as a one-off, for the much publicized violent scenes

    That's a poor example of how society is but it's not so far off the mark as I've found ppl to be selfish, unprincipled and greedy

    Witness UK's property pre-occupation, if you've ever tried buying/selling you'll see ppls greedy nature come shining through

    A lot of the Left/Anarchos are probably middle-class kids who're going to cop their parents estate in years to come . They can be whatever they claim to be, knowing there's a big fat suburban house coming to them which they can rent or sell, they'll then be laughing
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    I watched last nights, as a one-off, for the much publicized violent scenes

    Funnily enough I'm not surprised by that
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    You should be surprised I watched Big brother , I watched last nights, as a one-off, for the much publicized violent scenes

    That's a poor example of how society is but it's not so far off the mark as I've found ppl to be selfish, unprincipled and greedy

    Witness UK's property pre-occupation, if you've ever tried buying/selling you'll see ppls greedy nature come shining through

    Its nigh on impossible to separate people's "natural" behaviour from the influence of the society around them, so your point is not worth discussing.
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    A lot of the Left/Anarchos are probably middle-class kids who're going to cop their parents estate in years to come . They can be whatever they claim to be, knowing there's a big fat suburban house coming to them which they can rent or sell, they'll then be laughing

    LOL! :D
    Yet again you show yourself up for the ignorant, patronsing clueless idiot that you are! :D

    Keep 'em coming! :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    Survival of the fittest, would mean that there is competition and greed involved in getting the meat.

    Social habits have come later.

    Hmmmm...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Yet again you show yourself up for the ignorant, patronsing clueless idiot that you are! :D

    Again she has a point, although one based on a few example.

    The person in the "House" who claimed to be an anarchist was public school educated. On her eviction she posed in the News Of The World in a catsuit.

    Gotta love people with principles... :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From what I've heard (and I haven't watched the programme), the person who claimed to be an "anarchist" was a fucking idiot.
    Most "proper" anarchists I know are working class through and through. SWP tend to be middle class student types though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Among few proper anarchists I know in real life the most proper one is me ( thanks, no applauds please). So I think proper anarchists tend to be middle-class students.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was basing my opinions with usually Leftists i've encountered with unconvincingly gruff accents who come from comfortable backgrounds but sounding as plummy as they should do would lose them much kudos
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LabRat
    Among few proper anarchists I know in real life the most proper one is me ( thanks, no applauds please). So I think proper anarchists tend to be middle-class students.

    You're not an anarchist. You're a free market libertarian.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    I was basing my opinions with usually Leftists i've encountered with unconvincingly gruff accents who come from comfortable backgrounds but sounding as plummy as they should do would lose them much kudos

    Yes of course you were dear. :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    You're not an anarchist. You're a free market libertarian.
    Well well you said this million times. The proper anarchists are guys wearing pink socks. If I like yellow socks I am not an anarchist at all. The fact I deny the State is irrelevant. Fuck all dictionaries, glossaries and encyclopaedias. Viva Brigade Rossa, Che Guevara, Bakunin and Chomsky. Bomb stupid capitalists and you’ll get complete happiness. Is Osama a proper anarchist from your point of view? He’s destroyed those bastions of exploitation!
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