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Communism
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
This is for xicoperez to educate us all a little more about communism.
Please be fair to him and his comments and can we try not to get into the "well Stalin killed millions" and "racist communists" argument because, as he says, these accusations can be levels against capitalism too.
We also have people starving, an elite etc.
So, xico, over to you. Can you answer the questions I posed in Lukesh's thread...?
Please be fair to him and his comments and can we try not to get into the "well Stalin killed millions" and "racist communists" argument because, as he says, these accusations can be levels against capitalism too.
We also have people starving, an elite etc.
So, xico, over to you. Can you answer the questions I posed in Lukesh's thread...?
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And as for the 'communist' countries, they arent at all, you cant have a whole country being communist because you have to organise things like labour, trade, education, health etc.
Everybody is to centered around themselves these days. We should all work towards making the world a better place, and trying to make our own countries work rather than going to another country and telling them how to run their country when their country is in a state of near chaos. (Aimed at the American and British leadership here). And let's face it, the Middle East is never going to be fixed, as such.
Communism will work to a certain degree, though, with a good people's leader, and when its sticks to working for the people rather than for the leaders, and prosecuting anyone who so much as coughed in a certain way, like Stalin did. Lenin was good, though. Stalin was a blatant tosser, though, i mean he employed a peodophile... (Comrade Beria, for those of you who don't know). Communism does provide a far better life for the average person, though, when it is an honest regime, as if you all work for the good of a country, and pay is near enough standardised, there is plenty left over for reinvestment, and so public services improve, and Soviet Russia did have a fairly low organised crime rate (if you exclude Stalin and co.), and apparently Aeroflot was one of the safest airlines at the time, beating western airlines...
And Vodka is great...
Do you blame Communism for the anti-semitism or the culture inherent in that society. The reason I ask is that as soon as the former Communist European states experienced a wave or racism and anti-semitism after the Wall came down.
In fact anti-semitism has existed under just about every political system I can think of.
Don't think I implied that. At least it wasn't my intention. Merely pointing out that from personal account, I can say that communism is not equal for everyone and as peaceful as pointed out and made out to be.
I do wonder if communism has ever been practiced in its purest sense. Always thought the early kibbutz system came close.
i wouldn't want to live under comunist rule. off to the gulag then ...for what ...disagreeing?
i wouldn't want all men to be equal simply becuase we aren't.
you cannot force people to be eqaul.
Teh paris commune and various stages in the spanish civil war i think.
That didn't last long either, did it
Only thing which kibbutzes have produced, are traumas. Unless you're a volounteer and get exploited, and get tricked into believing that it's all wonderful.
That'll be anarchism rather than communism I think.
Well you learn something new everyday. I'd always thought they were looked on with affection by those who knew them. What 'traumas' exactly?
Being placed in a kids-house from the age of 7 I think, living without the parents, is not nice.
Everyone knwowing everyone, and their buisness, making calculations on each others behalf is also not nice.
Having rations on "good" stuff as chocolate as a kid, where that was what they looked forward to the whole week in the kids-house, was also not something she looks back on with delight.
I don't believe that there is any Kibbutz in the country which has stayed with the original concept. Though most still want to get out of them.
I thought that the Paris commune was authoratarian communism? The spanish civil war was yes anarchists and i made a mistake, but that is why they lost key battle isn't it because they had no chain of command and could not make sensible strategic decisions with the system
But the anarchists lost the Spanish civil war because the communists fucked them over.
Have you read Homage to Catalonia Blagsta? Brilliant book!
The disorganisation and infighting of the Republican government during the Civil War while the fascists got all the help the Nazi war machine could throw at them still pisses me off.
Oh! A thread all for me!
This is how I tried to explain that the Soviet Union was not communist (I am reposting it because, as Jim said, chances are people will miss the debate with it's current title and most likely some will not know what's going on)
It gives me a clue about public feelings for the form of Government they lived in, wich, as I said, was not communism.
People are greedy by nature. The hole point of communism (as explained by Bakunin (an anarquist, member of the 1st International)... as I was saying, the hole point is the balance in between our natural greed and our natural altruism.
Communism does offer that. A real communist society would have an effective planned economy, not a represive end ineficient one like the Soviets. Work would be distrbuted equaly, and with the amount of manpower not used in capitalism we each could have not only the basic products but also the ones many call luxuries.
That is exactly why communism hasn't kicked in yet. We, as a hole, are still not ready... But that doesn't mean that we should stop trying...
Emm... The U.S.S.R. was not communist.
Now with something completly different...
I never meant to say that as this capitalist society gets many people murdered every day and exploits racism and other separatist methods, those terms could not be used against communism.
Real communists are not racists, nationalists, sectarian, chauvinists... All men and women are equal. As the Communist anthem, The International, says there is only one race, the international race.
About the murders... "Well Stalin killed millions" he was not a Communist. There were deaths in every revolution, and there will be deaths in future revolutions. There were deaths in every counter-revolution, and there will be deaths in future counter-revolutions.
I hope that clarified something.
Well really it is the opposite. Another reason for stating that there are no communist countries is that while there are countries (frontiers) there can not be communism. As I said in another thread: I need every member of a community to be free so I can cultivate my gifts in all directions, that means that my freedom depends on my neighbour's freedom. (Understand neigbours and community as all human beings.)
He said proletariat dictatorship also known as democracy.
The second meaning is not communist. These misconceptions of communism are precisly the reasons why it will not work now. Because too many people think like you. Or more like it, not many think like me. Luckily many people don't think like you...
Once you put a leader, it is not communism. Instead of eliminating classes you are re-classifying.
:yes:
In theory, everyone is equal in communism. But it has never existed in practice. Your post would be correct like this: Merely pointing out that from personal account, I can say that Stalinism is not equal for everyone and as peaceful as pointed out and made out to be. In Stalinism is was as Orwell wrote:
That, again, is Stalinism. Not Communism. Communism is achieved one revolution at a time. And a revolution is democracy in it's pure form.
I thought this point was pretty obvious, but it has been used in arguments so many times its frightning. Thinking that communists want everyone to dress the same, eat the same , listen to the same music, think the same, etc, is ridiculous.
What is that?
Please explain...
This too...
The Republicans lost the war because Stalinists, Trotskysts and Anarquists fought eachother.
The P.C.E. (Communist Party) "guerrillas" (supported by Stalinists) were killing the P.O.U.M. (Workers Party for the Marxist Unification) "guerrillas" (supported by Trotskysts) and viceversa. They were also killing and being killed by the the C.N.T. (National Confederation of Work) "guerrillas" (supported by Anarquists ("National", great name for an anraquist organization)). A part from the guerrillas there was the army, that was very badly supplied and trained. The Nationals had better training and supplies.
:eek:
Spanish Civil War. It was a coup d'état. The nationals called it a patriotic movement. And as a Communist I'd call it a counter-revolution.
I agree. I wouldn´t want to be forced into communism, particularly if I was an aristocrat.
Despite our good intentions we don't like to live equally. We thrive on competition as we have done for millenia.
So was human nature capitalistic before er...capitalism?
Unfortunatly I have to agree with someone who said it that humans are greedy by nature it seems, always wanting more
There's nothing wrong with that.
Which in the case of capiltalism, it's almost always the case.
Theres nothing wrong with greed? Hmmm Well its your opinion i guess
Ig feeling the need to own or have something makes people get off their butt and work, then it can't be a bad thing.
Btw, people are more than welcome to check out my thread in the AG forum