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freedom of association

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    Blagsta




    I very much doubt that is the case (I'm sure it would've been judged unconstitutional) unless you can give an instance

    A colleague of mine at work visited the deep south recently and one of the towns still had separate entrances and different food for blacks and whites in the main shop. The food for black people was consistently lower quality than the food for whites.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by UpsetChap
    Since when did an individuals rights only extend to protection against force or fraud. If you want to live in a society where people are free to discriminate against each other on ground of ethnicicity, race, religion or gender then go create a hermitage in antarctica. The rest of us are content to coexist in a society that respects each others rights as an individual.

    I don't know where you get this idea that because you own something you're entitle to racially discriminate on it's behalf, because it simply isn't the case.

    What rights? If there is no right not to be discriminated against then no one's rights are violated!

    A business owner owns his business so should be free to determine who should work there!
    I very much doubt that is the case (I'm sure it would've been judged unconstitutional) unless you can give an instance

    Shit was segregation in the South unconstitutional!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure if the 'no travellers' sign would apply- travellers are not of any particular race, and establishments such as bars and clubs are allow to deny entrance on physical appearance.

    Race-based restrictions (“no blacks” for instance) are not allowed and rightly so.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta
    A colleague of mine at work visited the deep south recently and one of the towns still had separate entrances and different food for blacks and whites in the main shop. The food for black people was consistently lower quality than the food for whites.

    just a few miles off the beaten track can reveal a bygone age of barely-recalled thoughts, feelings and customs

    I love travel, I do:)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, I thought you'd approve of segregation. :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the sole liber
    A business owner owns his business so should be free to determine who should work there!

    And he/she is so long as they don't discriminate on account of race. Thats the law. Welcome to modern society.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    Toadborg


    Well there's hypothetical and then there's hypothetical :rolleyes:

    Maybe but this seriously could happen.

    In a racist society where shopkeepers are allowed to not sell to minorities there is a serious danger that those people could not get food.

    If the system does not work in possible circumstances then it is not a good one.........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In a racist society where shopkeepers are allowed to not sell to minorities there is a serious danger that those people could not get food.

    or in In a racist society where shopkeepers are allowed to not sell to majorities - I know a Asian cafe in Walthamstow where some friends (White) were stared at and frozen out of the place

    It didn't bother them too much, the cafes loss really. That must be the tip of an iceberg in terms of where group A would not be welcomed by group B

    Maybe you address the common things that occur commonly rather than that hypothetical old lady
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    I know a Asian cafe in Walthamstow where some friends (White) were stared at and frozen out of the place

    Ahhhhh, more of your stories eh? :D
    I don't doubt it occasionally happens, but its convenient that you have an example of racism towards white people for every occasion innit? :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta

    Ahhhhh, more of your stories eh?

    A colleague of mine at work visited the deep south recently and one of the towns still had separate entrances and different food for blacks and whites in the main shop. The food for black people was consistently lower quality than the food for whites.

    Ahhhhh, more of your stories eh?:D :eek:

    did he/she split in two to get both foods?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The difference is that you have a specific agenda to push, and all you rely on is somewhat dubious sources.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yours sounds very dubious
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Really? LOL! :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    i seriosly don't like you sole liber.

    none of us can ever be allowed to be free to treat any people how the hell we fancy.
    old fat hooky eye hamza ...said some nasty things ...only said ...but you are eager to condem him.

    your grasp on reality comes from your father. you are apeing him as you obviously have no real experience or knowledge of the world yet.
    you are a boy trying to play in a mans world.
    i pray reality gives you some fucking hard knocks.
    ...and having just read some of 'your' blog ...i am even more convinced none of what you say on these forums is of your own thinking.
    the blog has been written by someone completely different!
    daddy by any chance?
    you need to get out and about a bit more so you can develop some ideas based on fact as opposed to the views of your over bearing father.

    You don't know me. So what if my posts offend you? Why the fuck can't I speak my mind?

    Shit.:rolleyes: :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by UpsetChap
    And he/she is so long as they don't discriminate on account of race. Thats the law. Welcome to modern society.

    The law in this country isn't an absolute, since it can easily be repealed! Is it wrong to question WHY anti-discrimination legislation is necessary?!

    Drugs are illegal but you can still argue as to whether they should be legalised or not!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm aware it can be repealed. Although it almost certainly won't. I'm trying to get across to you that this idea you have that because you own a business you can for example exclude blacks is a myth.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's no myth. It's simply un-PC!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just because something is un-PC does it mean it is somehow more justified as some morons seem to think........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the sole liber
    It's no myth. It's simply un-PC!!

    Well if it's not a myth lets see you back it up. Under what basis do you derive the right to discriminate because you own something. Because it certainly doesn't have any kind of legal backing in this country.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Based on the theory of private property ownership. If you own something, then you should have FULL discretion over its usage!

    It's just living in a capitalist society!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But if you choose to use that private property to use a SERVICE to the PUBLIC that is REGULATED by the government, then you must adhere to the rules. Or you will have your business shut down.

    Such is life.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the sole liber
    Based on the theory of private property ownership. If you own something, then you should have FULL discretion over its usage!

    It's just living in a capitalist society!!

    who says you have the right to own anything? Society. Whether you like i or not our whole way of life is derived from our society, and so we have to stick by society's rules. Society says that you can't discriminate against race.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
    who says you have the right to own anything? Society. Whether you like i or not our whole way of life is derived from our society, and so we have to stick by society's rules. Society says that you can't discriminate against race.

    But the government OVERSEEING that society can easily make laws permitting discrimination!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really should read the rest of the thread, but sorry; I don't feel like it.

    The reason for what you say is because all human rights and freedoms should exist without any discrimination on any grounds (Article 14 of the European Convention Human Rights, I think :/). This includes the freedom of association.

    The Race Relations Act 1976 bans discrimination towards employment on the grounds of race.

    I'm really not certain what you're asking here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm questioning the worth of such anti-discrimination legislation!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No your not, your questioning whether it should exist on some vague principles, you have n ot mentioned any benefit from this, the shopkeeper gets to satisfy his prejudice? Woppee.........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, he should get to satisfy his prejudices because it's HIS PROPERTY!!

    And what are vague principles? How are property rights vague?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is the point of principles if they don't make things better?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the sole liber
    Yes, he should get to satisfy his prejudices because it's HIS PROPERTY!!

    And what are vague principles? How are property rights vague?

    Well if you believe that then I'm afraid you're going to have to find a nation state that agree withs you because it isn't, and in modern history NEVER has been the reality in this country.

    As was mentioned before if you live in a society you have to adhere to the rules of that society. You may believe that if you own something you are free to discriminate racially on it's behalf but the reality is society disagrees with you - and what society says, goes.

    You've yet to even back up your claims with anything approaching a legal basis. You're theory of "private property ownership" simply isn't supported by any kind of history or precedent in this country. You don't seem to be grasping this.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Private property rights exist now!! They exist in ANY capitalist society!
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