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Iraq heading for self-destruction. Well done to us
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
US gunships machine fire cleric supporters
US 'pacification' offensive at Falluja
Shia Muslims kill 7 US soldiers
Civil war in Iraq a very real possibility
Can anyone possibly say that the Iraqis are better off now that they were under Saddam?
And yes, we all know about Saddam's killing and torturing. But at least the country was in control and countless thousands would still be alive today if we had not invaded.
And don't even get me started on the international repercussions in the Middle East and elsewhere. Or Al Qaida's growing support.
Well done to us. How nasty of the Iraqis not to be more grateful for their glorious liberation.
US 'pacification' offensive at Falluja
Shia Muslims kill 7 US soldiers
Civil war in Iraq a very real possibility
Can anyone possibly say that the Iraqis are better off now that they were under Saddam?
And yes, we all know about Saddam's killing and torturing. But at least the country was in control and countless thousands would still be alive today if we had not invaded.
And don't even get me started on the international repercussions in the Middle East and elsewhere. Or Al Qaida's growing support.
Well done to us. How nasty of the Iraqis not to be more grateful for their glorious liberation.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
What a fucking shambles.
Don't get me wrong, there are positives and a war to remove Saddam was a laudible goal but the negatives now and in the future don't bear thinking about. The decisions before, during and after the war make this arguably Britain's worst military decision since Suez.
If the country doesn't look ready for self governence by the deadline, Blair should do the honourable thing:
Hold his hands up, admit there were reprehensible mistakes made by him and the MOD then he and Geoff Hoon should resign gracefully.
Arrogant tosser as he is.
Funny though how after all the claims of imminent threat were debunked and the need for public justification turned to Saddams brutal repression of the Shias, here we are using apache gunships against the very same people and calling it "pacification".
Seems Saddam learned his trade well from his former taskmasters.
the place was relatively peaceful on a day to day basis. there was virtualy full employment. no terrorism. massive thriving shopping centres ...sucsessful busineses ...night clubs and bars ...all mostly thriving. property prices were on the up. the people lived reletively free of danger. alquida hated the westernised lifestyle of iraq ...the people hated the likes of alquida.
mr hussien and his sons could have been bumped off at some point.
now ...we have created hell. the middle east is more unstable than ever. there is no way to carry on and no way out.
what a fuck up ...exactly the fuck up most people predicted ...apart from the stoopid right wing americans ...how are the folks on mil.com doing? won't be many of them left soon if they are still serving the master ...
Mr.Roll. mil.com is going strong and still very interesting, still worth a look. I pick up some very good info i.e the 'freeway rick' link from that site and read it most days. I might not agree with all their politics but they do have some arguments and info which is worth taking in.
Following the murders and mutilations of those 4 American contractors last week, the overwhelming suggestion of the wise American soldiers of mil.com was to destroy Fallujah and everyone in it. Some suggested using nukes, some MOABs, some helicopter gunships. But the vast majority of posters there (and if opinion polls are a good indication of public opinion for a whole country, then a message board with 10,000+ members is an excellent indication of opinion of the average US soldier) appeared to advocate murdering tens of thousands of people as a revenge for the death of 4 US citizens.
Nice to see that that the armed forces of the "leader of the free world" are composed mainly of racist murdering maniacs. :rolleyes:
Destroy thousands of civilians under an American flag and its suddenly okay but when Saddam did what our own governments would do to any militant uprising by citizens in any of our own countries, it was "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" blazoned across the front pages of our corporate press.
What's wrong with this page?
I could not agree more, it just shows the total hypocrisy of the Americans. This whole "revenge" episode cannot go well at all. And do the US and UK governments actually give a valid reason for going to war anymore? Or is it just George W. Moron wanting to get the oil and bomb Saddam and Blairs following his masters commands:rolleyes:
Agreed about the right wing rhetoric but as a History student, I try and look at different sources to gain an understanding of the wider picture. Its not for everyone though, so don't bother if reading the type of thing pointed out above pisses you off.
xicoperez - http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic?a=frm&s=78919038&f=409192893
Ha! This forum is great! I love it, really love it...
Nobility of military service indeed.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!
nothing has changed. camp delta and camp x-ray are there ...scorched earth policies. environmental disregard and destruction.
there seems to be something about the white european race ...as if it is a genetic mutation for greed and destruction on an awsome scale. there is nothing quite like us.
The very people who desperately sought to justify going into Iraq to find those (now proven non-existent) WMDs, are advocating using WMDs against the people they supposedly came to "liberate". Echoes of Halabja under a red white and blue banner this time round.
Sick, demented little monsters waiting for their opportunity to go start a conflict and kill something, that is the bent of our modern military and the proof comes from their own lips. Honour indeed!
People are too tribal for these artificial boundaries.
When will our armed attack dogs take pause long enough to consider the very simple principle at the root of our Western Judeo-Christian heritage, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and desist altogether from further brutalising and humiliating an already long brutalised people and acknowledge that they have been used not to defend our nations from any real threat but to conquer and co-opt yet another weaker nation?
Talking of nuking or destroying a people for daring to stand up to foreign conquest only shows the world how despicable and hateful and unworthy of trust both our leaders and our military truly are. One day, that same attitude may well be voiced by citizens and servicemen of the next world power as they occupy our cities and towns, killing civilians who dare undertake their patriotic duty to fight back however possible.
You wont hear these mil.com nutcases calling themselves or their progeny "terrorists" or "thugs" worthy of nuking when we all find ourselves on the receiving end of what we have criminally perpetrated on countless other nations in order to keep our war machine rolling.
Time to pull out, leave it to the UN and reduce our military to that necessary only for domestic defence. That will allow us to start channeling some of our inordinately large defence spending into constructive engagement with the rest of the planet rather than contnuing this destructive neo-imperialistic engagement.
We certainly do not have any moral authority to pontificate on the human rights abuses and disregard for international law of others whilst brandishing our greater capacity for the very same.
Thats ridiculous and pretty stupid.
We are more greedy and destructive than other races?
Surely we are just the most powerful? Why would it be any better if another race were more powerful? It would probably be worse considering how corrupt and oppressive many non-european nations are. Personally I think the european race has done a lot for the world. I guess its just fashionable to be self-loathing of ones own race, country etc among ultra-PC, uber-liberals.
Dont get me wrong I admire other cultures but I find it reprehensible to be ashamed of our own and feel as though it is somehow offensive to others to espouse it.
Oh bollocks, and you damn well know it.
Hinduism has the caste system, meaning the low can never be the high. But no, that can't possibly be about greed.
Islam has the extremist zelots who believe that those who don't believe in Allah should be blown up. But no, that can't possibly be about destruction.
Look at Africa- as soon as our back is turned, Rwanda happens. Though obviously that was neither baout greed nor destruction.
It's human nature to look after oneself, and to a lesser extent one's community, and that does involve screwing everyone else. There are only a finite numbver of resources on the planet and it simply isn't in any group's interests to share- sharing means getting less.
What IS a race... White race? White European? So in the USA they are white ex-European?
Groove champion said in response to Roll's comment (that I said nothing about, it wasn't worth it) "I admire other cultures but I find it reprehensible to be ashamed of our own". Roll was talking about a "race" and you bring up culture? So are we talking about culture now?
Kermit, Islam is a race now? Is it a culture? Or is it a religion? Are we taliking about religions now? Africa... Is African a race now? Are there white africans now, as a race?
Please lets talk about things with some meaning here... some of these comments have no sense...
And if this goes off topic... I wont even start on the human Nature thing...
did i say anyone would be better in our place?
but the worst fing wuld be acomplete pullout leaving the long suffering iraqis with another 100% authoritarian regieme ahem *saudi arabia*
Just as things were calming down the U.S has arrested another of al-Sadr's aids.
Define "terrorist".
Do you honestly believe that anyone seriously advocates the use of nukes in revenge for 4 civillian deaths? Ever heard of bravado...?
That Hitler chap, so he killed millions but at least the country was in control. And just think the of the hundreds of thousands who would still be alive if D-Day hadn't happened :rolleyes:
I can't believe that you used "control" as the acceptable face of Saddam.
And no, I'm not trying to compare Saddam and Hitler, just showing what a ludicrous argument that is.
Oh, and if torture and killing are an "acceptable" cost of control, why do you complain about X-Ray?
Actually most of them are. They just want the US to leave now, thank you very much.
Since:
- there were no WMDs
- there was no threat to others
- there were no links to terrorism
- there was no legal basis
the only argument for going to war was to make the lives of Iraqis better (despite the fact that the end does not justify the means when the means are illegal war on a sovereign nation and the deaths of tens of thousands). But it has been proved, as widely predicted, that the lives of the Iraqis have been made worse and that a lot more people would still be alive today had Saddam be still in power.
I'm certainly not one to justify the monster but let's make one thing clear. Saddam wasn't killing people at the rate of thousands (or even hundreds) per month and the place was nowhere near the anarchy and pre-civil war shambles it is today. The only possible justification for waging illegal wars and dropping hundreds of thousands of tons of high explosives on another nation would be to avert an impending catastrophe (a la Rwanda for instance). The situation in Iraq was a trillion miles different from that and in fact not particularly worse than in most given little third world dictatorships today. There are as many reasons for bombing Uzbekistan as there are for bombing Iraq. But we in our eternal wisdom are shaking hands with a dictator as bad as Saddam and yet I don't hear any calls for invasions and wars there...